SiIvaGunner Wiki:Moot/Log September 2022
pokemonfreak777 , before we begin, I'd like to move the discussion about meme thresholds until after Mick's "see also album page placement" talking point
pokemonfreak777 , before we begin, I'd like to move the discussion about meme thresholds until after Mick's "see also album page placement" talking point
Today's agenda:
Mick - Memenav vs MusicMemes
pokemonfreak777 - miscellaneous topics about what to do about pages in certain special page categories (uncategorized/unused/unorganized/wanted categories) Coolbeans Cruz - Remove the "Notable frequently ripped tracks" section of the Frequently ripped tracks category. Ironwestie - Optimizations for Template:Album - Template:Album/test Mick - "See also" album page placement pokemonfreak777 - Discuss thresholds/criteria for memes/frequently ripped tracks/anything else that might need it (may need multiple meetings) Mick - Is Mr. Krabs a meme?
ZachHasArrived - Redefining "Sans is Ness" meme
Where do I add stuff to the agenda because we were waiting for the moot to discuss freq rip categories
so about thresholds/criteria for memes and such. theres been a lot of informal discussion about what should be done and what the requirements are but nothing firm
pokemonfreak777 - miscellaneous topics about what to do about pages in certain special page categories (uncategorized/unused/unorganized/wanted categories)
oh, I mean about this discussion point, pokemonfreak777
so about that topic, the main one i wanted to talk about was the uncategorized images category
theres at least 1000 images, some of which are from outdated boards, some of which are used by editors for personal use, and a few that are actually used by the wiki
its really hard to pick out which ones are from the latter and deal with them, so i wanted to propose the following: delete the images from the outdated boards (and links to the images) put editors' personal images into an "editor images" category
that way we can find and deal with images that fall in the last category better
as for the other categories, heres something i typed out earlier on things i would like to see done, but they are more minor
Wanted files/templates
- Many links are a result of deleting said file in the past but not the link to the file
- Unlink the deleted files (may need to be done by admin)
Uncategorized categories/pages/templates
- Go through the list and determine where they should be categorized
Unorganized templates
- Go through the list and figure out what the templates are for/if they are needed, then categorize them
Unused categories
- Most are of games with one rip that is undocumented or maintenance, but a few are outdated
- Remove outdated categories
Unused files/templates
- Figure out which are actually unused and determine if they are necessary to keep
- Remove unnecessary files/templates
Wanted categories/pages
- Mostly resolved, but need to be checked periodically for new entries/typos
Logistically speaking, adding editor images to a category and deleting the outdated images is trivial as long as we have a list of pages (EDIT: a list of pages for each bucket, I mean)
However, we need someone to manually review every image in Special:UncategorizedFiles to make that list
if need be, i could go through it slowly and come up with a list, but i think awb could do it as well?
cuz a lot of the first few entries look like this image (first one i found) Special:WhatLinksHere/File:-S-LOSE YOURSELF TO DANCE(KFAEBD).png
this is not used anywhere in the wiki and is only used here: https://siivagunner.fandom.com/f/p/3768537139118120531
This is the sort of page we would want to delete, which is fine. I don't think I can use AWB to edit the thread and remove the image link, however
I don't believe so. AWB does not look at Fandom boards from what I can tell
i don't like the idea of deleting images, all these boards are like a time capsule for the kfad2 fandom
i don't like the idea of deleting images, all these boards are like a time capsule for the kfad2 fandom
i don't like the idea of deleting images, all these boards are like a time capsule for the kfad2 fandom
unless the images have some other kind of issues but if not then i say keep them
even so, i think they should be dealt with somehow, cuz they clutter up the uncategorized file list
Would another category do the trick, like "Board images" or something?
to make it absolutely clear this is a wiki-specific thing and not a siivagunner thing
i must also note that some board images are superseded by actual images on the wiki
Summary: Uncategorized files that are on outdated boards will be:
- Deleted OR
- Put into a "Wiki forum images" category
- Uncategorized files that are used by editors for personal use will be put into an "Editor images category"
Please vote on EACH of the three points
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Okay, that is:
- 1-2-3
- 4-2-0
- 6-0-0
So, we will go ahead with the "Wiki forum images" and "Wiki editor images" categories
Moving on, pokemonfreak777 I know you have various points to make about special pages
well not exactly. just minor things that i think should be done occasionally (and may need admin powers)
MusicMemes and MemeNav are two navigational boxes used on Meme pages. The former organizes memes related to music by origin (musical genre and medium) and the latter organizes them by amount of use (and by extension, channel relevance).
I have a proposal regarding one, and a question about both
Proposal: change MusicMemes to a general meme navbox for memes by medium Would be arranged as it is #below Yes music is the main focus of SiIva, but this would only exclude the handful of memes that aren't focused on musical sources (characters, Steve Harvey, Eggnog)
Question: Are both of these navs necessary? Both are good variants of meme navigation, but it feels kind of repetitive to have them both.
Could they both be contained within the same navbox, but use a sort table or something to change the layout?
I think the "Music Memes" navbox should be deleted. Most channel memes are in music form; I don't see the point of it.
i agree as well. we should keep the memenav and remove music memes, considering the significant overlap
Personally, while I appreciate that the memes are organized by medium, I don't think it is necessary to have them organized both by medium AND uses
It's definitely an improvement over the current one. It's just that I think the amount of times a meme's been used is more noteworthy than where it originated from.
Summary: Template:MusicMemes and Template:MemeNav seem redundant. We will either:
- Delete MusicMemes and replace it with MemeNav OR
- Replace MusicMemes with the new navbox Mick has proposed
=====
2. 
, but i would also be in favor of replacing memenav with mick's new navbox (not one of the options)
Coolbeans Cruz - Remove the "Notable frequently ripped tracks" section of the Frequently ripped tracks category.
Category:Frequently ripped tracks this is quite a minor change but the "notable frequently ripped track" section is weird because there are some frequently ripped tracks with many games (such as slider) not in the section but then there are some "notable frequently ripped tracks" with 2 games (such as bonus room blitz) generally i think combining them would be easier
By combining them, do you mean making the list like the main list, or the notable tracks list?
the main list (edit: listing every game in the frequently ripped track category is pretty useless)
Category:Frequently ripped tracks this is quite a minor change but the "notable frequently ripped track" section is weird because there are some frequently ripped tracks with many games (such as slider) not in the section but then there are some "notable frequently ripped tracks" with 2 games (such as bonus room blitz) generally i think combining them would be easier
this is something i've been wanting to change for a while now. i never understood why there had to be separation between frequently ripped tracks and "notable" frequently ripped tracks. i agree with combining them into one list and ditching the distinction
I personally have always been confused why we have two separate lists, and I don't think being used in various media makes a track notable
Summary: Merge the notable frequently ripped tracks section into the main list and remove the distinction between tracks and "notable" tracks
=====
5-0-0. We will merge the notable frequently ripped tracks section into the main list and remove the distinction between tracks and "notable" tracks
I have made several improvements to Template:Album, which you can view (and test) here: User:Ironwestie/Sandbox#Template:Album optimizations (Done)
The most important changes are:
link - url, formatted to Bandcamp {{t|Icon|Bandcamp}} or YouTube playlist {{t|Icon|YouTube}} - need to use full url to determine whether it is a bandcamp or youtube link previous / next - name of a page, becomes an italicized link
The most important changes are:
link - url, formatted to Bandcamp {{t|Icon|Bandcamp}} or YouTube playlist {{t|Icon|YouTube}} - need to use full url to determine whether it is a bandcamp or youtube link previous / next - name of a page, becomes an italicized link
Making it so that it automatically italicises the previous and next album sections in the template is a smart move.
coolbeans7z Instead of writing:
link= Bandcamp {{t|Icon|Bandcamp}}
yourself, you can just use:
and the template will format it for you
Summary: Merge the link and previous / next changes from Template:Album/test into Template:Album?
=====
why is an entire see also section all the way at the bottom necessary for linking album categories on their main pages? why isn't it at the top of the track list like timelines on event pages?
That's actually a really good idea. I'm not sure why we never decided to do it like that in the first place
I think we might have done it like that since most wikis put the see also section at the bottom.
yeah im okay with this. like overcast suggested in the reply of the original message, it was probably just copy paste convention
Summary: Remove the "See also" section from album pages (the ones that link to the album's category) and replace it with a Template:See also link at the top of the track list ====
5-0-0. We'll replace the "See also" section with a "See also" link a the top of the track list
Moving on, we have three discussions about memes:
pokemonfreak777 - Discuss thresholds/criteria for memes/frequently ripped tracks/anything else that might need it (may need multiple meetings)
Mick - Is Mr. Krabs a meme?
ZachHasArrived - Redefining "Sans is Ness" meme
Before we continue, I would like to make it clear that discussions about memes have always been a hot debate
And I would like to remind people to remain civil and on-topic during this discussion
so about thresholds/criteria for memes and such. theres been a lot of informal discussion about what should be done and what the requirements are but nothing firm
i'd like to set some baselines here so that everyone at least can agree on minimum requirements for memes and such
first, what kinds of things need a threshold/criteria? off the top of my head, these are what i could think of:
Current (speculative) list memes, frequently ripped tracks (FRT), series navboxes, contributor lists
Frequently ripped tracks and contributor lists have thresholds already (10 and 30, respectively)
Frequently ripped tracks and contributor lists have thresholds already (10 and 30, respectively)
yeah but shouldnt they be in a place where editors can see them? (specificlly for contributor lists)
Second, what should the threshold/criteria be for each?
these are what i've heard informally but they should be either made formal or up for further discussion: Current (speculative) criteria Memes: 30+ rips, 2+ rippers FRT: 10+ rips, exclude album/KFAD tracks Series navboxes: 5+ links, actual game franchises/SiIvaGunner playlists (July 2022 moot) Contributor lists: Move from category page to list page at 30+ rips
Third, once the threshold/criteria is met, should there be further discussion before being made?
Current (speculative) actions Memes: yes, FRT: no, Series navboxes: leaning yes, Contributor lists: no
Fourth, place the criteria/threshold numbers and subsequent actions in a place where all editors can see.
what about for the listable / discography memes (undertale, daft punk, potentially spongebob)
these are the main points i have. each can (and probably should) have more discussion
what about for the listable / discography memes (undertale, daft punk, potentially spongebob)
if an artist has 30 songs and theyve all been used once in separate rips, do they count as one?
I'm very hesitant to put a number to memes, since it is difficult to differentiate between what is a meme and what is just a fleeting popular source
I think this is a good start, but we do have several memes that would break this rule
I really don't like the idea of adding a contributor quota when it comes to classifying memes as well.
yeah i've heard these points a lot, hence why i've brought it here for discussion
I think this is a good start, but we do have several memes that would break this rule
we should have a baseline threshold/criteria established before either making a page outright or discussing it further in a moot
pokemonfreak777 I agree with that. Having a process for deciding what is a meme and what isn't makes it much easier
could we use overcast's list for this? the siiva memes list is very outdated
i think we should start with discussing individual memes and compare what makes them "memey" in the context of siiva
as an example for what i am envisioning for the process: suppose we want to consider if "super idol" is a meme. first we check whether it reaches the threshold/requirements (whatever we decide those to be in the end) once it reaches, we either allow editors to straight up add "super idol" to the meme list or bring it up for discussion at a moot, where we discuss/vote
That sounds reasonable to me. I would even extend it further and have very broad guidelines for what to talk about at the moot
Stuff like "Is the source used in lore?", "Is it associated with SiIvaGunner or the channel?"
because once these guidelines are established, i think things like the other meme topics ("Mr. Krabs" and "Sans is Ness") will become clearer on their meme standing
Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but can I suggest moving the last two discussion topics to the next moot? I have to go now due to how late it is where I live, and I really don't want to miss taking part in discussing these topics. These two specifically:
Mick - Is Mr. Krabs a meme? ZachHasArrived - Redefining "Sans is Ness" meme
i think we should start with discussing individual memes and compare what makes them "memey" in the context of siiva
(I'm not replying because replying doesn't appear on the moot logs)
For this discussion, I feel that this is something we need to have a good think about and that we need to discuss over multiple meetings
pokemonfreak777 I recommend writing this process you proposed into a guideline-style document so we have a place to refer to
So, we are now 1.5 hours into the meeting. How are y'all feeling? Do we want to talk about this guideline a little more, or do we want to end?
depends on how established the requirements are for the other topics i guess (frequently ripped tracks, navboxes, contributor lists)
FRTs and contributor lists are already a part of the wiki's rules, so I'm totally fine with putting them up somewhere
series navboxes I'm not sure about (what exactly is a link?) and memes are another can of worms
we did decide that navboxes must have at least 5 links in the July 2022 moot, but we didn't specify that those links had to be games
most of what we talked about in the july 2022 moot was about which of our existing navboxes to delete, actually. not necessarily when to create new ones
there is this collection of navboxes from Notcreepypasta User:Notcreepypasta/Template:Navbox series/proto collection
One last thing before we end: The moot's times will now be represented in UTC instead of Pacific
I'm gonna head out too.