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SiIvaGunner Wiki:Moot/Log 2024 March 16

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Rickhenrique - A new "Criteria for specific content" section for series and franchise (e.g. Touhou Project, MOTHER, etc.). (see User:Rickhenrique/Series criteira for a longer explanation)
ZachHasArrived - "MAXIMUM/ULTIMATE QUALITY ACHIEVED" album articles should have parenthesized titles (not the videos) and rippers who just had their rips sampled shouldn't count as contributors.
ZachHasArrived - Finish discussing notice template image replacements (cut short in last Moot). -
Mick - freqrips by rippage (not really proposing just an idea)
Mick - remove Category:YouTubers
Spottygamester pinned a message to this channel. See all pinned messages. — 03/16/2024 4:02 PM
  • 23:02: Spottygamester: Just pinning that for easy access.
  • 23:02: Pokemonfreak777: didnt we discuss the second to last one at the last moot already?
  • 23:03: Ironwestie: I wasn't around for the last moot, so I don't know
  • 23:03: Ironwestie: It looks like Rickhenrique isn't available, so we'll go with @ZachHasArrived. Are you ready to present?
  • 23:04: Spottygamester: [in reply to Pokemonfreak777: "didnt we discuss the second to last one..."] The reqrips by rippage idea was discussed very briefly, but there was no decision made on it because it was getting late at the time.
  • 23:05: Ironwestie: Hmm... we may not be able to vote on any moot topics if the only attendees are us four
  • 23:05: Spottygamester: I'd wait a little more. It tends to take a while for the others to show up from what I've noticed.
  • 23:05: Ironwestie: Sure. We'll wait another 5 minutes.
  • 23:06: Pokemonfreak777: maybe do a verified members ping? i feel like people may have forgotten we had a second moot today (i almost did myself lol)
  • 23:07: Spottygamester: I was going to suggest that as well.
  • 23:07: Rickhenrique: oops
  • 23:07: Airy342: hello
  • 23:07: Rickhenrique: I just now noticed, sorry for the delay
  • 23:07: Spottygamester: Hello Rick and airy.
  • 23:07: Arthur10123: oh I might actually be able to participate this time, howdy
  • 23:07: Rickhenrique: hey Arthur!
  • 23:08: Airy342: hello arthur
  • 23:08: Ironwestie: The first agenda item is @Rickhenrique's:
Rickhenrique - A new "Criteria for specific content" section for series and franchise (e.g. Touhou Project, MOTHER, etc.). (see User:Rickhenrique/Series criteira for a longer explanation)
  • 23:08: Ironwestie: You have the floor
  • 23:10: Rickhenrique: well, let's git it up with a TLDR: originally was the criteria meant for the series and franchises (e.g. Touhou and MOTHER) due to some debatable in which is allowed to be a meme or not, due to likely Mario, Sonic, and Pokémon could be counting
But then, the agenda now changing in regards of the multi-media sources, while the thing isn't updated, this is now a better changing in regards of which is consider as a multi-media meme and what things could be changed
  • 23:10: Rickhenrique: Tried to resume better than I can, but basically, Multi-Media criteria n' stuff as a whole could be updated
  • 23:11: Ironwestie: Do you have a proposal for what you think the criteria for multi-media sources should be?
  • 23:13: Rickhenrique: unfortunity, no, as since mostly it could be from my old proposal, but it would be either: adding another new criteria that would likely be a meme, and then discuss in regards of expecific series would work to be a meme (example: long series or franchise won't work, but series like Danganronpa would work)
  • 23:13: Rickhenrique: other than that, I don't have much in ideas right now, so open for everyone to think on it, honestly..
  • 23:14: Ironwestie: Okay. Let's move on to the next topic, since the moot is for voting on proposals. We can have more open discussion in ⁠wiki-general and on the forums
  • 23:15: Ironwestie: Rickhenrique, I recommend that you think on this topic and have something to propose for next time. I'll take your topic off of the docket since it's now different from its original proposal
  • 23:15: Rickhenrique: Well that was...something, but works honestly
And I understand, I couldve have think better now about this
You can skip it and remove from the moot page, then
Sometimes people could prepare themselfs next time that a moot happen
  • 23:19: Ironwestie: We'll budget the moot to end by the hour since we have no other proposals officially on the docket
  • 23:19: Rickhenrique: I see
  • 23:20: Spottygamester: Alright, here's my pitch. Arthur's list of wiki resources and file guides on his user page should be made official and moved onto the main wiki. I'm not sure where it would go, maybe somewhere in the policy's and guidelines section?
User:Arthur10123/Wiki resources and file guides
  • 23:20: Ironwestie: Arthur, would you be open to this?
  • 23:20: Pokemonfreak777: agree
  • 23:20: Mick the Squirrel: IM HERE IM HERE
  • 23:20: Spottygamester: Hi Mick.
  • 23:20: Mick the Squirrel: sorry bout that
  • 23:20: Madotsuki417: [in reply to: Spottygamester: "Alright, here's my pitch..."] do this
  • 23:21: Ironwestie: We'll loop back to Mick's topic after Spotty's topic
  • 23:21: Arthur10123: [in reply to: Spottygamester: "Alright, here's my pitch..."] oh! I made that list after I saw we don't actually have a list of resources like that, so that would be pretty cool
  • 23:22: Pokemonfreak777: [in reply to: Spottygamester: "Alright, here's my pitch..."] yeah i guess policies and guidelines would be the best spot although it does feel out of place there at the same time
  • 23:22: Rickhenrique: That definivelly would be an easy acess for it
  • 23:22: Ironwestie: I recommend that we categorize this list as a guideline rather than a policy, since these are best practices rather than rules to be followed
  • 23:22: Arthur10123: yes
  • 23:22: Spottygamester: Agreed.
  • 23:22: Pokemonfreak777: yeah it is a guideline after all
  • 23:22: Pokemonfreak777: its also the only guideline currently lol
  • 23:22: Spottygamester: It should be linked on the top navagation bar as well.
  • 23:23: Ironwestie: So, in summary, the proposal is to move this list to the main namespace, link to it in the top navigation bar, and link to it in the policies and guidelines section?
  • 23:23: Spottygamester: That's how I see it.
  • 23:23: Spottygamester: It should probably be linked under the list of guidelines section of this page.
SiIvaGunner Wiki:Policies and guidelines
  • 23:24: Ironwestie: Sounds good. Let's take it to a vote.
  • 23:24: Ironwestie: Summary: We will move Arthur101's "Wiki resources and file guides" list to the main namespace, link to it in the top navigation bar, and link to it in :"Policies and guidelines"
=====
Mick - freqrips by rippage (not really proposing just an idea)
  • 23:25: Mick the Squirrel: ok i dont want to talk about the freqrips thing that was disagreed upon last moot
  • 23:26: Mick the Squirrel: and as said in the title, it was just a spitball
  • 23:26: Ironwestie: I see. In that case, you have the floor for:
Mick - remove Category:YouTubers

For three reasons: other pages already categorize its content, current subcategorization isn't accurate, and the category would be an unnecessary headache to seriously manage

other pages already categorize its content
Its description as of September 2017 was "YouTubers related to SiIvaGunner or referenced in high quality rips", and its current description as of October 2021 (that I wrote in an attempt to salvage it) is "YouTube channels associated with SiIvaGunner, referenced in rips, or ones that have contributed to the channel.


subcategorization isn't accurate
When you go to a category, everything in its subcategories should also be a part of the supercategory. i.e, every character-dedicated Snow halation image is also a rip image, which is also an image, which is also content.

  • 23:27: Mick the Squirrel: This used to be subcategorized under only memes, "Memes" (would that imply meme categorization by medium again? would "song", "tv show" or "video game" subcategories have to be made? bleh.) but was removed in the second edit because "the actual YouTubers that are memes are already tagged as such, and because Gilva/Azuardo/TTGD are not memes". The "contributors" category was added a couple months later, but Merrygoroundoflife's statement works the works the other way as well: Chad warden, angry joe and the nostalgia critic have no known contributions to the channel.


The only fitting category this could possibly go in is "content", which feels... lazy? unsure how to put it.

what goes in the category would be an unnecessary headache to seriously manage
like many of this wiki's little issues, the only reason this hasn't been nipped yet is because continued attention and thought hasn't been put into it.
The creation of both this category and the now-deleted Rips referencing YouTubers category was made in mind of cataloging big-name-big-subscriber people (jontron, etika, jacksfilms, markiplier etc), but eventually grew in scope when obscurer and obscurer channels were added.

Almost all contributors have YouTube channels. This brings two options, neither positive:

A: Establish criteria to determine what a "YouTuber" is — no. not doing this. unnecessary and headache inducing. The "if they upload consistently outside of SiIvaGunner-related content" line was my attempt at starting this but it is not worth it the more you think about it. How do you define "SiIva-related content"? Or "uploading consistently"? Do we add "amount of subscribers" to the criteria? This ends up dissolving into a pointless "YouTube Elites" category.

B: Include everyone with a youtube account in the category. An obsolete mess that excludes a handful of people. Can't go in the opposite direction either, "people without youtube accounts" would be even weirder. 

Almost all contributors have YouTube channels.
I agree that this makes most up most of the problem. "YouTubers" is too broad of a category to have on the wiki. Most media sources will have some kind of YouTube channel.
  • 23:29: Spottygamester: Agreed.
  • 23:29: Pokemonfreak777: yeah i agree with deleting this category. i dont really see the point of having it
  • 23:30: Spottygamester: I've felt the YouTubers category hasn't been relevant for a while now.
  • 23:31: Spottygamester: Plus we don't document their YT careers on the wiki either, since that's not the focus of it.
  • 23:31: Pokemonfreak777: also a lot of these pages have more fitting categories that they are already in, like memes/contributors and the like
  • 23:31: Spottygamester: Kind of feel like it's a relic of the older days of the wiki as well.
  • 23:32: Spottygamester: When we had pretty much no criteria or rules for these things.
  • 23:32: Arthur10123: yeah just more early wiki mess that hasn't been cleaned up yet
  • 23:32: Madotsuki417: i regularly forget on a basis we have a youtubers category cuase its not like the contributors
  • 23:32: Madotsuki417: that count as youtubers
  • 23:32: Madotsuki417: are like any more special than other contributors just cuase of that
  • 23:32: Madotsuki417: in terms of siiva content
  • 23:32: Mick the Squirrel: yeah thats the main reason i was thinkin about this
  • 23:33: Mick the Squirrel: either an elite category or an everybody one
  • 23:33: Ironwestie: Seems like we're in agreement about this
  • 23:33: Ironwestie: Was there more to your proposal, Mick?
  • 23:33: Mick the Squirrel: the next two chunks yeah
  • 23:34: Mick the Squirrel: should we continue talking or vote on each section individually?
  • 23:34: Ironwestie: I'd like to know if the next two sections suggest anything other than "delete the category"
  • 23:34: Ironwestie: Because if not, we can just vote on that
  • 23:35: Minindo: Would "List of rips referencing YouTubers" get removed/merged into something?
  • 23:35: Rickhenrique: I was thinking of that
  • 23:35: Mick the Squirrel: i'll just paste them now
  • 23:35: Rickhenrique: I think a merged works
  • 23:35: Mick the Squirrel: ====PART 2: CREATE "RIPPING PLATFORMS" CATEGORY====

SilvaGunner, GilvaSunner, SiIvaGunner, Flustered Fernando, TimmyTurnersGrandDad, VvvvvaVvvvvvr, SiIvaGunner2, The High Quality Podcast, and SG Art Team should be in their own individual category. "Ripping platforms" title is to get the point across that all contributors except GilvaSunner are excluded. "Look at these, these are the big central pillars of the ripping community".

I don't think these 8 channels are listed all together anywhere. It would be nice to have them in a category, possibly even navbox, together. I define them as "YouTube channels ran for the purpose of uploading rips, or content relating to ripping." (SG Art team has yet to upload but I imagine that will be its eventual purpose).

====PART 2.5: "RIPPING PLATFORM" TEMPLATE====
The contributor category isn't accurate for these, but the template works fine, it just needs tweaking. Add other parameters that exclude it from contributors, and it under "Ripping platforms". Manually add the contributors category for Gilva.

  • "platform=yes" parameter removes the "contributor" category, adds the "Ripping platform" one
  • "establishment / ending" date? (first / last rip is already in the template, i mean official youtube creation dates)
  • "purpose"?
spitballin here
  • 23:36: Ironwestie: Hmm, this is not what was implied in the original proposal
  • 23:36: Spottygamester: Yeah I was about to say.
  • 23:36: Spottygamester: It's interesting though.
  • 23:36: Mick the Squirrel: less thought was put into this cause of procrastination yeah
  • 23:36: Pokemonfreak777: [in reply to: Mick the Squirrel: "====PART 2: CREATE "RIPPING PLATFORMS" CATEGORY====..."] for this part i wouldnt go as far as make a separate category tbh
  • 23:37: Ironwestie: Okay, I thought you were going to suggest more things related to Category:YouTubers
  • 23:37: Ironwestie: Let's finish the vote on that before we tackle these other proposals
  • 23:37: Mick the Squirrel: ok
  • 23:37: Arthur10123: [in reply to: Mick the Squirrel: "====PART 2: CREATE "RIPPING PLATFORMS" CATEGORY====..."] that is an interesting idea, but yeah it's not really what the proposal was lol
  • 23:37: Minindo: [in reply to: Minindo: "Would "List of rips referencing YouTubers" get removed/merged into something?"] To be honest I think the list works as is right now and if it got dissolved into the other lists, we would have to divide them up way more heavily. I don't care if category:youtubers goes away that makes sense but List of rips referencing YouTubers should stay imo
  • 23:37: Arthur10123: maybe save it for later I guess
  • 23:37: Ironwestie: Summary: We will delete Category:YouTubers and remove the category from the pages that have it.
=====
  • 23:38: Spottygamester:
  • 23:38: Arthur10123:
  • 23:38: Pokemonfreak777:
  • 23:38: Mick the Squirrel:
  • 23:38: Airy342:
  • 23:38: Minindo:
  • 23:38: Ironwestie:
  • 23:38: Mick the Squirrel: [in reply to: Minindo: "To be honest I think the list works as is right now and..."] youtubers list is staying
  • 23:38: Mick the Squirrel: i wasnt talkin about that just comparing
  • 23:38: Minindo: yeah okay it looks like nobody was arguing that lol
  • 23:38: Ironwestie: Result: 7-0-0. The proposal has passed. EDIT: 8-0-0, including Memmy's vote EDIT 2: 9-0-0 including Rickhenrique's vote
  • 23:39: Ironwestie: Before we continue, I'd like to clarify a rule about the moot and proposals
  • 23:39: Madotsuki417:
  • 23:39: Arthur10123: lol
  • 23:39: Madotsuki417: whoops i was off for a bit haha
  • 23:40: Ironwestie: Please separate proposals into their own sections on the agenda. Do not try to fit multiple proposals into one, especially if this would go over the "2-3 proposals per person" rule
  • 23:40: Rickhenrique:
  • 23:40: Mick the Squirrel: yeah... sorry
  • 23:40: Pokemonfreak777: i will mention before we move on that before we delete the category, we should make sure that each entry currently in it actually has another category it belongs to
  • 23:41: Mick the Squirrel: they're all in contributors and or memes
  • 23:41: Arthur10123: yeah, even SiLvaGunner is categorized as a contributor funnily enough
  • 23:41: Minindo:

A screenshot posted by Minindo of a list of pages categorized in the "Contributors" category as of the time it was taken.

  • 23:42: Ironwestie: I will allow the "Ripping platforms" proposal to be our last topic of today, since Mick has only proposed one topic so far
  • 23:42: Ironwestie: But in the future, please list the proposals separately
  • 23:43: Pokemonfreak777: ok about that topic: i think a section on the losfir for youtubers would work better than a category
  • 23:43: Mick the Squirrel: i smashed it together cause i thought they were related enough to be solved under the same topic
  • 23:43: Ironwestie: pokemonfreak, I believe we already have a section called "Non-parody ripping channels" or something
  • 23:44: Pokemonfreak777: yeah but not everyone listed in the proposed category is there, and i think it probably should?
  • 23:44: Ironwestie: We have one section called "Non-parody music channels", and one called "SiIvaGunner fan channels",
  • 23:44: Ironwestie:
'''SilvaGunner, GilvaSunner, SiIvaGunner, Flustered Fernando, TimmyTurnersGrandDad, VvvvvaVvvvvvr, SiIvaGunner2, The High Quality Podcast,''' and '''SG Art Team''' should be in their own individual category. "Ripping platforms" title is to get the point across that all contributors except GilvaSunner are excluded. "Look at these, these are the big central pillars of the ripping community".

I don't think there is a category (EDIT: or list) for all of these

  • 23:45: Mick the Squirrel: my point with this was also to get them out of the "contributors" category, none of these except Gilva are actual people that have submitted to the channel, they're just masks essentially
  • 23:46: Arthur10123: yeah I think this idea is pretty sound
  • 23:46: Spottygamester: I get what you mean.
  • 23:46: ZachHasArrived: I'm here btw
  • 23:46: Spottygamester: Hi ZachHasArrived.
  • 23:46: Ironwestie: I don't like the idea of having a category for this just to have a category
  • 23:47: Ironwestie: They seem to be related, but it isn't clear exactly how they are related
  • 23:47: Madotsuki417: the thing is they arent contributors either really so i see some validity in having a category for ripping channels
  • 23:47: Pokemonfreak777: yeah i dont really like having a category either. i do like the idea of grouping them together though, which is why i proposed a list section
  • 23:48: Mick the Squirrel: what would they be categorized under, then?
  • 23:48: Ironwestie:
"YouTube channels ran for the purpose of uploading rips, or content relating to ripping.

This would also include SiIvaGunner fan channels

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZskgg4q_-_V0zUWbrj_F6g
  • 23:54: Ironwestie: My point is, the category is too vague and loose to be justified, in my opinion. It really just exists to group these entities together
  • 23:54: Mick the Squirrel: i'm saying though, under what else should these channels be categorized?
  • 23:55: Ironwestie: "Content"
  • 23:55: Ironwestie: They could also stay under the "Contributors" label they have now
  • 23:56: Ironwestie: Grand Dad Mania is under Content, for example
  • 23:56: Pokemonfreak777: we voted two moots ago to not call sg art team a contributor though
  • 23:56: Mick the Squirrel: the criteria is
    • creates notable content in relation to ripping
    • is a youtube channel
we don't have to expand to every fanchannel though.
  • 23:57: Mick the Squirrel: just the two we're already covering.
  • 23:58: Ironwestie: Accounting for the content policy, these channels also have to relate to official SiIvaGunner content
  • 23:58: Ironwestie: So the fan channels would be covered (EDIT: by the criteria, I mean. They would not be included on the wiki)
  • 23:59: Ironwestie: I think I've said my piece about this.
  • 23:59: Ironwestie: Is there anything else we want to discuss before we take it to a vote?
  • 0:00: Spottygamester: I don't really have anything to say on it.
  • 0:00: Spottygamester: @Madotsuki417 Vote coming up.
  • 0:01: Ironwestie: Summary: We will create a category for SilvaGunner, GilvaSunner, SiIvaGunner, Flustered Fernando, TimmyTurnersGrandDad, VvvvvaVvvvvvr, SiIvaGunner2, The High Quality Podcast and SG Art Team. The category is called "Ripping platforms", and it covers "YouTube channels ran for the purpose of uploading rips, or content relating to ripping"
=====
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