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SiIvaGunner Wiki:Moot/Log 2024 July 13

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ThisGreenDingo - Standardising contributor pages to have consistent formatting, amounts of information and consistency in profile picture galleries.
ThisGreenDingo - Standardising meme and frequently ripped track pages in general. Formatting, trivia, lyrics, history etc. Many pages have very dated, mispelt or opinionated text.
Overcast07 – We should rename "List of songs featured in rips" to "List of musical artists featured in rips" to more accurately describe its contents, since things that are not songs are still listed if they are related to a musical artist.
Overcast07 – We should rename the lists of things featured in rips so that they use a consistent title format. We could use the "List of things featured in rips" format, the "List of rips referencing things" format, or a new format such as "List of rips by joke/Things".
Overcast07 – "Rips featuring" categories for TV shows should be split up if the theme song is the most commonly used source, so that information on the wiki can be organized more sensibly. Specifically, Inspector Gadget, The Simpsons, Family Guy and The Nutshack all have theme songs with well over 25 uses, but each theme song is basically categorized as though it is the show itself, rather than a specific composition, and uses of the theme songs themselves aren't listed anywhere on the wiki. It would make more sense if the theme songs just had their own categories.
Mick — We do not need composer navboxes (https://siivagunner.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Series_navboxes#Musicians) (except psy), replace with games by composer (https://siivagunner.fandom.com/wiki/User:Mick_the_Squirrel/Media_by_composer)
Mick — Create a meme article and category for Nicolas Cage (https://siivagunner.fandom.com/wiki/User:Mick_the_Squirrel/Rips_featuring_Nicolas_Cage)

Rickhenrique - Create a meme article and category for "MARIO BROTHERS MOVIE (https://siivagunner.fandom.com/wiki/User:Rickhenrique/MARIO_BROTHERS_MOVIE)" by Maerwynn (see also: Draft category (https://siivagunner.fandom.com/wiki/User:Rickhenrique/MARIO_BROTHERS_MOVIE_category) and Google Sheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RP6iPwBpAOCbioPzhyiePhMavYkztWIufE4bvCF_e_M/edit?usp=sharing))
ZachHasArrived - Remove the "uploads" section from the King for a Day (https://siivagunner.fandom.com/wiki/Template:KfaDTournamentNav) and the King for Another Day (https://siivagunner.fandom.com/wiki/Template:KfADTournamentNav) navboxes
TurretBot - embed YouTube videos on all rip and video pages using either this (https://siivagunner.fandom.com/wiki/User:TurretBot/Snowball_Park_(Beta_Mix)_-_Super_Mario_3D_World or this (https://test-123.fandom.com/wiki/Snowball_Park_(Beta_Mix)_-_Super_Mario_3D_World layout
  • 23:03: Arthur10123: quite a lot to get through, too much for just tonight
  • 23:03: Arthur10123: @overcast you have the floor for:
We should rename "List of songs featured in rips" to "List of musical artists featured in rips" to more accurately describe its contents, since things that are not songs are still listed if they are related to a musical artist.
  • 23:03: Arthur10123: since Dingo couldn't attend
  • 23:04: Overcast07: Basically, the point of doing this is to make the title match the contents. Saying that it's a list of songs is mostly but not entirely accurate, since the other pages are also basically lists of songs, and the "list of songs …" also lists things that are not songs, like interviews and album covers
  • 23:06: Overcast07: Note that if the next moot topic is also implemented, this could be called "List of rips by joke/Musical artists" or "List of rips referencing musical artists" or could use some other title format, which is why this first topic doesn't suggest changing the title format
  • 23:07: Arthur10123: yeah this seems fine to me
  • 23:08: TurretBot: musical artists is a bit wordy, couldn't it be musicians?
  • 23:08: Pokemonfreak777: i think i'm okay with this. part of the reason i added the non-song parts to the losfir (gonna need a new name lol) is because of some visual rips where the artist appears but none of their songs do. if we strictly stick to songs only, that information does not really have a place to go
  • 23:08: ZachHasArrived: The "songs featured in rips" navbox already labels the page as "artists"; I think it's fine.
  • 23:09: Overcast07: (I might have changed it to say that lol)
  • 23:09: Rickhenrique: Yeah it's better if it was changed to artist instead
  • 23:10: Rickhenrique: Plus, it's confusing thanks yo the list of youtubers is formatted differently
  • 23:10: Overcast07: [in reply to Overcast07: "(I might have changed it to..."] Actually, it originally said "Artist" before I edited it
  • 23:11: Arthur10123: do we go with "musical artists" or just "musicians" like Turret suggested? I can go with either
  • 23:11: Mobbz.Co: [in reply to TurretBot: "musical artists is a bit wordy, couldn't it be musicians?"] ^
  • 23:11: Rickhenrique: I guess the latter works
  • 23:11: TurretBot: Artists would be funny but then the line between youtuber and artist would be even stupider
  • 23:11: ZachHasArrived: I like "musicians" more too
  • 23:11: Pokemonfreak777: i think musician is better
  • 23:12: TurretBot: [in reply to TurretBot: "Artists would be funny but then the line..."] i wouldn't be opposed to merging youtubers and musicians into a single artist list though
  • 23:13: Mick the Squirrel: have we considered listing youtubers on both pages?

"youtube"-like vids that aren't music listed on the youtubers list, songs listed on the musicians list

connected by a "for"
  • 23:13: Pokemonfreak777: [in reply to TurretBot: "Pokemonfreak777..."] i would be opposed to that actually. the line is blurry for some but its usually pretty clear which ones are youtubers and which one arent.
  • 23:13: Pokemonfreak777: it is a discussion for another time though
  • 23:13: Overcast07: [in reply to TurretBot: "musical artists is a bit wordy..."] I'm not sure if there is a different meaning being implied by "musicians" compared to "musical artists". Mainly I'm not sure if this incorrectly implies that while bands comprise musicians, the other lists don't contain any musicians lol
  • 23:15: Overcast07: i.e. I am assuming that "musical artist" (or "recording artist") is a slightly more specific term than "musician"
  • 23:15: TurretBot: do bands not comprise musicians
  • 23:16: Overcast07: No, that part would be correct regardless
  • 23:16: Arthur10123: I don't see much of a difference between the two either tbh
  • 23:18: Overcast07: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "have we considered listing..."] I didn't think about that but it could be done, although the title might have to be changed again since some of them are definitely not musicians
  • 23:19: TurretBot: [in reply to Overcast07: "I'm not sure if there is a different meaning being..."] Which other list is supposed to have musicians?
  • 23:19: TurretBot: besides youtubers
  • 23:19: Overcast07: The people who composed the music for the TV shows and such
  • 23:19: Mick the Squirrel: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "well technically they are..."] well technically they are
  • 23:19: Mick the Squirrel: never said "professional" musicians
  • 23:19: ZachHasArrived: I feel like this is an entirely different topic.
  • 23:19: Mick the Squirrel: kinda
  • 23:20: TurretBot: People like Toby Fox still go in LOSFIR, media is sorted by media name and may rarely mention the composers but not usually?
  • 23:21: Overcast07: There are sections for channels like gameexplain which don't mention any songs
  • 23:22: Mick the Squirrel: those should be left on the youtubers list then
  • 23:22: Overcast07: Anyway, how should the vote be formatted? Since Turret brought it up, should there be an additional vote on whether to use "musicians" instead of "musical artists", or should there be a single vote that just uses one of the options?
  • 23:22: Arthur10123: with our format, I think we gotta decide on one
  • 23:23: Pokemonfreak777: which one do you want overcast? its your topic after all
  • 23:23: Overcast07: I think I am fine with using "musicians" instead
  • 23:24: Mobbz.Co: "List of musicians featured in rips" is what i imagine it being named to
  • 23:25: Arthur10123: I think we're good to go for a vote then
  • 23:28: Overcast07: [1]
Wikipedia sometimes has separate lists for "groups" and "musicians" but I assume splitting it up like that now would be very disruptive
We will rename "List of songs featured in rips" to "List of musicians featured in rips" to more accurately describe its contents.

==== 

We should rename the lists of things featured in rips so that they use a consistent title format. We could use the "List of things featured in rips" format, the "List of rips referencing things" format, or a new format such as "List of rips by joke/Things".
  • 23:35: Overcast07: I think it would help for the article titles to be consistent, so that it is clearer that they are part of the same series of lists and are potentially easier to find
If it isn't difficult for us to rename the articles, I feel like there isn't really a reason for us not to use a consistent title format
  • 23:38: TurretBot: yeah
  • 23:38: Overcast07: I think the "List of rips referencing things" format is the better of the two formats that are currently used, since the actual list items are made up of rips, and I assume when the articles were made people independently thought that this format made more sense, but we could choose a different format if we wanted
  • 23:39: ZachHasArrived: What pages have inconsistent titles?
  • 23:39: Overcast07: The "List of songs featured in rips", and the "List of rips referencing YouTubers" and "List of rips referencing media"
  • 23:39: Mick the Squirrel: if we want to get this specific, some sections list things that aren't rips. List of rips referencing media/Companies#CVS Pharmacy
  • 23:39: Pokemonfreak777: yeah i agree with this. i just looked over the names we have, and taking into account the last vote, i think "list of <thing> featured in rips" would result in less page moves but i do also think "list of rips referencing <thing>" sounds better for most pages
  • 23:40: Mick the Squirrel: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "if we want to get this specific, some..."] "List of references to [x] in SiIvaGunner media"
  • 23:40: Arthur10123: I also agree we should have a consistent format, and I like "List of rips referencing X" more
  • 23:41: TurretBot: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "if we want to get this specific, some sections list things..."] unfortunately rips featuring categories already precedent
  • 23:41: Overcast07: They technically only count as precedent for album tracks and videos
  • 23:41: Overcast07: As far as I can tell Mojo articles featuring Jack Black are not placed in the category for him
  • 23:42: Overcast07: Also at some point I think the categories that refer to "rips" may need to be renamed anyway lol
  • 23:42: Pokemonfreak777: but yeah assuming we go through with this, we also have to amend the previous vote's wording
  • 23:42: Overcast07: That was my intention yeah
  • 23:44: TurretBot: If we want to have it not say rips it should probably just be List of references to X
  • 23:44: TurretBot: ex. List of playlists is not List of SiIvaGunner playlists
  • 23:44: TurretBot: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "'List of references to [x] in SiIvaGunner media'"] .
  • 23:44: Overcast07: I think that works
  • 23:45: Overcast07: But I included "list of rips by joke" because you suggested it lol

#⁠wiki-general⁠ [a link to TurretBot: "It should honestly be "list of rips by joke", but we would also have to change Category:Rips by joke"]

  • 23:46: TurretBot: or List of references/X
  • 23:46: Pokemonfreak777: wait so we're expanding the scope of the pages even more to include non-rips?
  • 23:46: TurretBot: they already do
  • 23:47: TurretBot: the 7th anniversary collage is listed and categorized in these things
  • 23:47: TurretBot: so it's not even limited to uploads
  • 23:47: Pokemonfreak777: huh. i did not know that actually cuz i never actually added them (since they arent rips)
  • 23:48: Mick the Squirrel: you had me worried for a second i thought you meant the 7th anniversary collage had rips featuring categories
  • 23:48: Overcast07: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "if we want to get this specific..."] I'm not convinced that mojo articles should actually be listed, since this example is about as relevant as saying Matsu's ripping guide references VGMTrans, which would be true but not really fitting the purpose of the list
  • 23:49: TurretBot: [in reply to Overcast07: "As far as I can tell Mojo articles..."] arguably those lists of mojo appearances should exist on the wiki tbh, every character except the main 32 have them (except Meowth and UHC2, who have lists of posts where they don't appear)
  • 23:49: Mick the Squirrel: the point is to find all acknowledgements of CVS within the siivagunner mythos so all cvs fans can enjoy the community's takes on the subject
  • 23:49: Mick the Squirrel: also the ripping guide is mentioned under 21 jump street for mynamejeff anyway
  • 23:49: Pokemonfreak777: [in reply to Overcast: "I'm not convinced the mojo articles..."] thats why i was surprised by this. i personally dont think we should add non-rip stuff to these pages but at the end of the day it depends on what the majority here wants
  • 23:50: TurretBot: i think i agree with mick regarding the usefulness of these lists
  • 23:50: Overcast07: For the purpose of the vote, since we have apparently already been here for 50 minutes, we should probably just not define whether those articles are limited to rips. They definitely should include album tracks which we don't consider to be rips anyway
  • 23:50: Arthur10123: we're getting a little off topic now, yeah
  • 23:51: Arthur10123: we just need to choose the new format
  • 23:51: TurretBot: so which format? List of references to X? or List of rips referencing X?
  • 23:51: Mick the Squirrel: the former
  • 23:51: TurretBot: this vote is also supposed to include the removal of the empty "Media" superpage right?
  • 23:52: Overcast07: No, that wouldn't be included I think?
  • 23:52: Overcast07: Unless we rename all of the subpages so that they are no longer subpages of it
  • 23:52: Mick the Squirrel: i want to keep that for the page history
  • 23:52: Mick the Squirrel: could be moved to a user subpage i guess
  • 23:52: TurretBot: it would be "List of references to anime"
  • 23:53: Overcast07: [in reply to TurretBot: "so which format? List of..."] Of these two, I would prefer "List of references to X"
  • 23:53: TurretBot: OK
  • 23:53: Overcast07: [in reply to TurretBot: "it would be 'List of references to'..."] I think this would be a good idea
  • 23:53: Pokemonfreak777: i prefer the latter honestly (for reasons mentioned earlier). but im in agreement for the rename for consistency
  • 23:54: Arthur10123: I'm fine with either tbh
  • 23:54: Arthur10123: though I would prefer the latter
  • 23:54: Overcast07: [in reply to Pokemonfreak777: "i prefer the latter honestly..."] my justification for omitting "rips" is mainly based on album tracks and non-rip videos being listed, which i assume will continue to be the case
  • 23:54: Overcast07: [in reply to TurretBot: "it would be 'List of references to ani..."] I am compiling the article titles that would be produced by this proposal
  • 23:55: TurretBot: I do think the "Other" would probably have to still be "List of references to other media"
  • 23:55: Overcast07: The articles would be called
    • List of references to musicians
    • List of references to YouTubers
    • List of references to live-action series
    • List of references to animated series
    • List of references to anime
    • List of references to films
    • List of references to video games
    • List of references to companies
    • List of references to the internet(?)
    • List of references to other media
  • 23:56: Mick the Squirrel: should the name siivagunner be included in the titles
  • 23:56: TurretBot: or maybe just "Media" and the page would include sections like

Animation

See list of references to animation
although that would be kind of redundant
  • 23:56: Rickhenrique: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "should the name siivagunner be included..."] No
  • 23:56: Rickhenrique: Since it's obvious already
  • 23:56: Mick the Squirrel: it feels dry as a title
  • 23:56: Mick the Squirrel: yknow
  • 23:56: TurretBot: List of playlists
  • 23:56: Rickhenrique: Yeah, but why putting on a wiki for SiIvaGunner?
  • 23:57: Overcast07: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "should the name siivagunner be included..."] The only list title we have which contains SiIvaGunner is List of SiIvaGunner memes. All other list titles omit that
  • 23:57: TurretBot: I think the main concern is more title brevity
  • 23:57: Rickhenrique: People would know it already what they're finding on
  • 23:57: Mick the Squirrel: should it be renamed list of memes then
  • 23:57: Mick the Squirrel: for consistency
  • 23:57: Overcast07: We can discuss that later
  • 23:57: Mick the Squirrel: ok
  • 23:58: Arthur10123: since that's the one overcast prefers, the vote will be for "List of references to X" then
  • 23:59: Overcast07: [in reply to Overcast07: "The articles would be called..."] The one I'm not sure about is "List of rips referencing media/Internet"
  • 23:59: Overcast07: Should it be "List of references to the internet" or "List of references to online media" or something else?
  • 23:59: Mick the Squirrel: internet is better
  • 0:00: Mick the Squirrel: online is vaguer
  • 0:00: Overcast07: And should it be capitalized as a proper noun lol
  • 0:00: Pokemonfreak777: honestly both are pretty vague
  • 0:00: Mick the Squirrel: googl
Unless it appears at the start of a sentence, you should only capitalize 'Internet' when it is a noun. More specifically, you can capitalize it when referring to the Internet (i.e. the thing that hosts the World Wide Web). Thus, 'Internet' is a proper noun, a word that names a unique thing.Apr 23, 2019
We will rename the lists of things featured in rips to use a "List of references to X" format.

==== 

"Rips featuring" categories for TV shows should be split up if the theme song is the most commonly used source, so that information on the wiki can be organized more sensibly. Specifically, Inspector Gadget, The Simpsons, Family Guy and The Nutshack all have theme songs with well over 25 uses, but each theme song is basically categorized as though it is the show itself, rather than a specific composition, and uses of the theme songs themselves aren't listed anywhere on the wiki. It would make more sense if the theme songs just had their own categories.
  • 0:09: Overcast07: I didn't do this unilaterally before the moratorium on new meme categories, so we have to do this now lol
  • 0:09: Overcast07: Basically I think the way we currently treat these theme songs is very unsatisfactory
  • 0:10: Overcast07: In most of these cases there is no list of uses anywhere on the wiki, usually because someone assumed that the theme song would always comprise the majority of uses, even though it's obvious that this would not happen in cases where the TV shows have a lot of other songs/things that can easily be used in rips
  • 0:11: Pokemonfreak777: honestly that was kinda what i wanted to happen as part of the multisource meme thing that everyone now hates lol
  • 0:11: Overcast07: And the infoboxes are forced to mix info about the theme song with info about the show, and are forced to clarify that the show itself doesn't have a key or BPM
  • 0:11: TurretBot: Almost all of these instances are also older categories on the wiki, before it became standard to meticulously have a list for everything
  • 0:12: Pokemonfreak777: yeah not really a fan of the huge list thing either tbh (see "Stuck Inside")
  • 0:12: Overcast07: I'm assuming that in keeping with most other categories we would use the official name if it exists, even if it produces awkward wording, so the Family Guy theme song would be referred to as "Family Guy Main Title" in the page names but continue to be referred to as "the Family Guy theme song" in most other contexts
  • 0:13: ZachHasArrived: So the shows' themes songs would officially become memes while the shows themselves would remain memes?
  • 0:13: Rickhenrique: I think so
  • 0:13: Rickhenrique: I mean would make more sense
  • 0:13: Overcast07: [in reply to ZachHasArrived: "So the shows' themes songs..."] Yes, unless for some reason either category would fall below 25 members because of the change, in which case the proposal does not define what should happen
  • 0:14: Overcast07: I'm not sure if this scenario is covered by the multi-source criteria
  • 0:14: Arthur10123: yeah I agree with this split
  • 0:15: ZachHasArrived: I know The Nutshack, The Simpsons, and Family Guy have plenty of uses outside of their theme songs, but how often is Inspector Gadget referenced outside of the theme song and Minecraft With Gadget?
  • 0:15: TurretBot: inspector gadget probably doesn't have 25 uses outside of theme song and minecraft with gadget (assuming character appearances would fall under "Minecraft with Gadget")
  • 0:15: Overcast07: [in reply to Overcast07: "I'm not sure if this scenario is..."] I was mainly worried about the Nutshack category but it seems like it has more than enough anyway
  • 0:16: TurretBot: for some reason this never caused the creation of Rips featuring Super Mario
  • 0:16: Pokemonfreak777: based on the current system for meme approval i think this would have to be slightly changed to the following
    • keep instances of the theme in the category (and rename accordingly)
    • move instances of the show to "list of references to X"
    • if people think the show is enough of a meme, we approve it in a moot
  • 0:16: TurretBot: fine by me
  • 0:16: Overcast07: This is a moot discussion
  • 0:16: Pokemonfreak777: a moot topic separate from this i mean
  • 0:17: Overcast07: This is literally the venue for proposing that things should be memes now, so I don't see why we need to do that
  • 0:17: Mick the Squirrel: i still want to know should a character appearing in a rip represent their song
  • 0:17: Pokemonfreak777: this split introduces several new memes at once which goes against the one at a time policy we established
  • 0:18: Mick the Squirrel: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "i still want to know should a character..."] family guy funny moments comps are an extension of the theme song and should be wrapped within the same meme as family guy theme song
  • 0:18: Pokemonfreak777: also i think this could help us refine our meme criteria which is the point of the policy
  • 0:18: Arthur10123: [in reply to Pokemonfreak777: "this split introduces several..."] actually yeah
  • 0:18: Overcast07: [in reply to Pokemonfreak777: "this split introduces seveeral..."] Do you want me to come back here next week and the week after just to do the same question with several different TV shows
  • 0:18: Pokemonfreak777: yes
  • 0:19: Overcast07: Would it be workable to just split the votes up, now, so that each TV show has to be voted on separately?
  • 0:19: Overcast07: Would that meet the requirements of the "one at a time" thing even if they were proposed in the same bullet point?
  • 0:19: Mick the Squirrel: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "family guy funny moments comps are an..."] Destruction of the Sammer Kingdom - Super Paper Mario ok i thought this rip only used the scream
it still serves my point, it is a subsection of the theme song being a meme, it was made with the intent of representing the overall idea of the simpsons being a siiva source. the theme song is just the largest representation of it
  • 0:20: TurretBot: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "i still want to know should a character..."] if there is going to be a separate list for every single episode that character appearances are taken from then they're objectively separate sources
if it's a siivagunner original depiction (i.e. original art) that can't really be sourced in the same way then that could maybe be argued
  • 0:21: Rickhenrique: Honestly, the tv series split would be fine, considering that the shows themselfs is featured other things besides the main theme
Not to mention about the tadc theme itself being separated from it's main series
  • 0:21: Overcast07: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "family guy funny moments cops are..."] If the visuals from the opening sequence are used in the rip then maybe, but I would be wary of gratuitously including stuff that doesn't have an explicit connection to the theme song
  • 0:21: Rickhenrique: Honestly I think that the list for the Simpsons should have a better rework it somehow
  • 0:21: Rickhenrique: The category I mean
  • 0:21: Rickhenrique: And use the title cards for the pages instead of random posters
  • 0:21: Rickhenrique: But that's another topic
  • 0:22: Mick the Squirrel: tadc is an even stranger example
we are all aware of what the slop trio is meant to represent, the joke is TADC in general since pomni keeps appearing to represent it as a whole. the joke is not just the theme song
  • 0:23: TurretBot: right, so your argument is that single source memes dont really exist or something
  • 0:23: Pokemonfreak777: [in reply to Overcast07: "Would it be workable to just split the..."] well the thing is each meme addition also requires an explanation as to why it should be considered a meme so we can refine the meme criteria and not have to do this whole separated vote thing. thats the entire point of the pause and the one at a time policy.
  • 0:23: Overcast07: The original meme criteria are still in effect, are they not?
  • 0:23: Overcast07: They are still part of the policy
  • 0:24: Overcast07: If the moot proposal was invalid, someone should have told me before the moot started
  • 0:24: TurretBot: also this is out of the scope of this discussion, unless it's to say that if we just wanted to create new categories for the theme songs and not modify the existing articles covering the show or make new articles covering the themes then that would be ok, but there is objectively a problem with all these shows having "There is a large list of rips that is a subsection of this meme but we're not telling hehehe"
  • 0:25: Overcast07: For all intents and purposes, the wiki already considers both the theme song and the show to be memes in these cases, if the theme song's key and BPM are in the infobox but the article title refers to the show
  • 0:25: Mick the Squirrel: the point of that was to make it like a little treat when you find something that isn't the theme song
  • 0:25: Pokemonfreak777: [in reply to Overcast07: "If the moot proposal was invalid..."] the moot proposal isnt invalid though. renaming the category is not introducing a new meme. creating another category is though.
  • 0:25: TurretBot: what
  • 0:26: Overcast07: [in reply to Pokemonfreak777: "the moot proposal isnt..."] This is even less logical than just saying it's invalid
  • 0:26: Overcast07: Renaming the existing categories would, in some cases, remove the majority of the articles from the category without substitution of a different category, which is why that is not the thing being proposed
  • 0:26: Mick the Squirrel: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "the point of that was to make it like..."] the entire catalog is implied to contain the theme which makes a list redundant, keeping the smaller and notable "other" cases listed because you don't know that they are there
  • 0:26: Mick the Squirrel: if we really want to list the theme song on the category page then we can do that
  • 0:26: TurretBot: ???
  • 0:27: Overcast07: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "the entire catalog is implied to contain..."] Do you think every rip referencing family guy features the family guy theme song
  • 0:27: Overcast07: At most it's 30%, and it's probably less
  • 0:27: Mick the Squirrel: how do only 30% contain the theme song
  • 0:27: Mick the Squirrel: i actually didnt know that ok
  • 0:28: TurretBot: Should we add a legend that's like

"🕇Does not contain theme song"

  • 0:28: Rickhenrique: Would be just
  • 0:28: Rickhenrique: "for rips featuring the main theme, see blablabla"
  • 0:29: Overcast07: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "the point of that was to make it like a..."] The theme song is a distinct composition that just happens to be played during every episode. Even if it's heavily associated with the show, it's still a distinct composition and shouldn't need to be treated in a special and not very well defined way
  • 0:29: Mick the Squirrel: im not against it being listed in the category, i understand why one would want that
  • 0:30: Mick the Squirrel: im just stating the thought behind it not being listed
  • 0:32: [in reply to Overcast07: "This is even less logical..."] Pokemonfreak777: i mean maybe i interpreted your proposal wrong then? you wanted to split the uses of the theme song from the show into separate categories, no? the way i see it the existing category has to house something (which would logically be the theme song), so a rename would work. if we weren't under a category freeze the second category would be no issue but we are so it would go against the current policy. if you think that makes your proposal invalid then i guess so?
  • 0:33: Overcast07: What is the exact text of the category freeze vote
  • 0:33: Pokemonfreak777: [in reply to Pokemonfreak777: "i mean maybe i interpreted..."] i proposed moving the existing info to the list of references pages so that the info doesnt get lost
  • 0:33: Pokemonfreak777:
We will pause the creation of: (9-0-0)
Meme articles (redlinks already in Template:MemeNav may have pages made for them)
Meme categories
New additions to Template:MemeNav
...Until a system for meme restructuring is proposed and agreed upon in a moot OR 6 months have passed. (This is November 25, 2024 at 4:58 PM PDT)

Addendum: If agreed upon in a moot, one meme at a time may be added and bypass the pause.
  • 0:33: TurretBot: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "im not against it being listed in the..."] i think the concern is that the list of rips with the theme song is long enough to be unweildy, even if it isn't the majority of the category
  • 0:34: Overcast07:
We will pause the creation of:
- Meme articles (redlinks already in Template:memenav may have pages made for them)
- Meme categories
New additions to Template:memenav
- Until a system for meme restructuring is proposed and agreed upon in a moot OR 6 months have passed.

Addendum: If agreed upon in a moot, one meme at a time may be added and bypass the pause.
  • 0:34: Overcast07: This is the original text which was passed
  • 0:34: Overcast07: There is no requirement that the additions should be in service of refining the meme criteria
  • 0:34: Overcast07: There is no requirement that the votes should come from separate proposals, only that the categories are added one at a time
  • 0:36: TurretBot: how would they be added one at a time otherwise
  • 0:36: Mick the Squirrel: [in reply to TurretBot: "i think the concern is that the list of..."] and that can still be solved if one just lists the theme song on the category page with all the other subsources
  • 0:36: Mick the Squirrel: .
the one at a time bit was moreso so you dont try to cheat with multiple unrelated sources
this multisource concept warrants an overall discussion
  • 0:36: Overcast07: [in reply to TurretBot: "how would they be added one at a..."] My suggestion above was to have a separate vote for each of the four new categories that would be created, which would nominally fulfil the "one at a time" requirement without forcing me to come back again two times
  • 0:37: Pokemonfreak777: [in reply to Overcast07: "There is no requirement that the..."] ...the entire reason we are doing this whole thing is so that we can refine the meme criteria. otherwise we would have just kept the old system.
  • 0:37: Overcast07: That implication is not what people voted on
  • 0:38: TurretBot: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "and that can still be solved..."] yes, and then there's a really long, unwieldy list on the page. there are long, unweildly lists on other pages though
  • 0:38: Pokemonfreak777: [in reply to Overcast07: "There is no requirement that the..."] sure but by doing this you are also technically going over the three topic limit
  • 0:38: TurretBot: [in reply to Overcast07: "That implication is not what people..."] that is actually the stated intent of the meme freeze
  • 0:39: Overcast07: I don't think a moot is a very good place for meme criteria to be defined unless someone comes up with their own criteria and presents it as a single thing to be voted on
  • 0:40: Rickhenrique: I think that is getting way much longer to decide about this, dont we?
  • 0:40: Overcast07: It seems like it would be impractical to do a redefinition of the rules piecemeal through a series of votes on individual memes, and no one seems to have tried that anyway
  • 0:40: Arthur10123: yeah this is getting tiresome
  • 0:41: Overcast07: [in reply to Pokemonfreak777: "sure but by doing this you..."] Has it been defined that a single bullet point must only result in a single vote?
  • 0:41: Overcast07: If it has then feel free to skip to the next topic
  • 0:41: TurretBot: [in reply to Mick the Squirrel: "tadc is an even stranger example..."] by that logic Rips featuring Inspector Gadget probably shouldn't exist, since the theme song is used in service of referencing Minecraft with Gadget for the takeover and continued afterward for similar, and the gadget theme is also in the video minecraft with gadget so its not an external source
  • 0:42: TurretBot: minus like, two 2016 rips but even then there were brown brick jokes before the takeover
  • 0:42: Overcast07: [in reply to TurretBot: "that is actually the stated intent..."] Where is it stated?
  • 0:42: Pokemonfreak777: [in reply to Overcast07: "Has it been defined that a single..."] no but in retrospect your topic probably should have been separated into multiple topics
  • 0:42: TurretBot: [in reply to Overcast07: "I don't think a moot is a very good..."] that is what's supposed to happen
  • 0:42: Pokemonfreak777: anyways i think we are going over time
  • 0:42: Arthur10123: yeah at 1 hour and 40 minutes
  • 0:43: Overcast07: This post doesn't describe how the new criteria are supposed to come into existence

[3] 

The pause was motivated by flaws in our current meme creation system, which have been unclear and inconsistent. The hope is that this pause will encourage the creation of new meme criteria.
  • 0:43: Overcast07: So I don't see why we would be assuming that this means that meme proposals are now automatically in service of creating new criteria
  • 0:43: TurretBot: mostly because ironwestie keeps saying that they are
  • 0:43: Rickhenrique: Wasnt the original topic to split main themes with the tv shows?
  • 0:44: Overcast07: Yes, and pokemonfreak has been saying that this shouldn't be done in a single vote or with a single proposal, even though it isn't explicitly defined that that can't be done
  • 0:44: Overcast07: Which is why we are here now
  • 0:44: Arthur10123: I think this topic has been drawn out for a while
  • 0:45: Mick the Squirrel: if it isnt done being discussed we shouldnt artificially vote on it just because a few people are tired
  • 0:45: Overcast07: If we can't agree on what the rules are supposed to be, here is the proposed vote text for now, and I will come back next week (or some other time) for the other three
We will make the Family Guy theme song a sub-meme of Family Guy.
  • 0:46: Arthur10123: lol
  • 0:47: Mick the Squirrel: are we actually voting now
  • 0:47: Arthur10123: y'all fine with that?
  • 0:48: Mick the Squirrel: i dont know if the discussion is over yet
  • 0:48: Pokemonfreak777: ...you're should to include a list of reasons too. this is why the topic needed to be split honestly
  • 0:49: TurretBot: the discussion was over when it started being about whether overcast's proposal violated the meme freeze or not, instead of about how the theme songs should be handled
  • 0:49: Overcast07: [in reply to Pokemonfreak777: "you're should to include..."] For the exact reason stated in the original proposal
  • 0:49: Arthur10123: we are over time so we need to wrap up
  • 0:50: Mick the Squirrel: is it a written rule that we only go for an hour and a half
  • 0:50: Overcast07: It meets the original meme criteria by itself but is no longer a majority of the uses in the category, and it was implemented this way before the concept of multi-source memes was defined, so we should rectify that
  • 0:51: Pokemonfreak777: [in reply to Overcast07: "For the exact reason stated in..."] so your list of reasons to make family guy theme song and family guy (the show) separate memes is
the existing category does not list the theme song separately
the rest of the category excluding the theme song is enough for its own category
information on both the theme and the show are included on its current meme page
  • 0:51: Rickhenrique: What about The Nutshack and The Simpsons?
  • 0:52: Overcast07: [in reply to Mobbs. Co: "What about The Nutshack..."] It would make the discussion too complicated so they will not be included here
  • 0:52: Pokemonfreak777: im listing them out so that we have stuff to go off of in the meme criteria discussion ⁠THE HOPEFULLY FINAL MEME DISCUS…
  • 0:53: Overcast07: [in reply to Pokemonfreak777: "so your list of reasons to..."] Yes
  • 0:53: Overcast07: However, as I have stated above I also think both of them are effectively considered to be memes by the wiki already, since the key and BPM of the theme song are included in the infobox of the article (even though the article is about the show)
  • 0:54: Pokemonfreak777: should that be added as an additional reason?
  • 0:54: Overcast07: I'm not sure how much this helps for the meme criteria
  • 0:55: Overcast07: You can put it in there if you want, but it shouldn't really be needed, since the application of the existing rules inherently has implied that shows are multi-source memes and songs are single-source memes, so a situation like this (where the category has features of both) only exists as a legacy of the previous system from before the criteria existed
  • 0:55: Pokemonfreak777: it helps by giving another possible reason other sources could be considered memes since it is potentially valid here
  • 0:58: Pokemonfreak777: i guess we can vote now and end?
  • 0:58: Arthur10123: I suppose so
  • 0:59: Overcast07: Go ahead
  • 1:00: Arthur10123: vote now
We will make the Family Guy theme song a sub-meme of Family Guy.

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