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SiIvaGunner Wiki:Moot/Log 2023 September

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ZachHasArrived - Add a YTPMV category for rips
ZachHasArrived - Create a character page for the Joke-Explainer 7000
ZachHasArrived - Create a "Rips referencing "Athletic Doctor"" category
Pokemonfreak777 - Create a consistent system for sorting rips with jokes involving songs by multiple artists (Proposed structure)
Maggie - Split the Idols series navbox into smaller ones for each series, similar to what happened with the Comic books navbox
Ironwestie (presented by Spottygamester) - Split the List of playlists and List of songs featured in rips lists by individual letter (see my user page)

Spottygamester pinned a message to this channel. See all pinned messages. — September 3, 2023 at 00:02

  • 23:03: Minindo: darn well another moot comes around and i still havent finalized the ytpmv criteria i guess theres this
Most of the rips listed meet at least two of the following criteria:
1. Has visuals
2. Uses pitch-shifting
3. Uses memes commonly associated with YTPMVs
  • 23:03: Spottygamester: That's neat.
  • 23:04: Spottygamester: I'll wait to see if anyone else shows up before starting.
  • 23:07: Spottygamester: @ZachHasArrived Are you available for the moot?
  • 23:07: ZachHasArrived: I’m not, sorry.
  • 23:07: Spottygamester: I see.
  • 23:10: Spottygamester: I'll skip your topics for today then, though if you still find that you are unable to attend most of these moots, but still have proposals you want to pitch for them, you can always ask someone else to present them for you.
  • 23:11: Spottygamester: Do you have somthing you want to say Maggie before I start with pokemonfreak's topic?
  • 23:12: Spottygamester: I think I'll start the topics now. Over to you @pokemonfreak777.
  • 23:13: Peacock Roy: its just about the skipped topics, i put it over in ⁠wiki-general to avoid messing with stuff here
  • 23:13: Spottygamester: Ah okay.
  • 23:15: Pokemonfreak777: ok so this is something that has been bugging me for a while hence why i wanted to make this topic

The way songs are sorted when there are multiple artists is kinda inconsistent, and the problem gets worse when one of them is a meme or has a song thats a meme. i laid out how i tend to approach this in the below link and i'd like to add it to our policies or manual of style
User:Pokemonfreak777/Proposed LOSFIR Structures

  • 23:16: Spottygamester: I've noticed this issue as well recently.
  • 23:16: Spottygamester: The formatting is all over the place.
  • 23:17: Pokemonfreak777: btw im open to suggestions on if there is a better way to do certain cases, as well as discuss how other cases not mentioned here can be done in my opinion
  • 23:18: Pokemonfreak777: but i'd like there to be a consistent system so sorting is easier
  • 23:20: Spottygamester: I'm reading this proposed formatting guide slowly since there's quite a bit to take in.
  • 23:21: Spottygamester: Is this partly based on how it's currently done on the LOSFIR?
  • 23:21: Pokemonfreak777: yes. i tried to minimize the number of necessary changes to switch over to this system
  • 23:22: Pokemonfreak777: in some cases with multiple different styles i chose the one i liked best and/or already prefer doing
  • 23:24: Spottygamester: Okay, I think it makes sense now that I've read it carefully.
  • 23:25: Spottygamester: Though I'd like to ask how this deals with how playlists are formatted on the list, since those seem to be pretty inconsistently formatted as well from what I've noticed.
  • 23:27: Pokemonfreak777: youre talking about this right?
For rips of the track, see Playlist 1, Playlist 2, ...
  • 23:27: Spottygamester: Yes.
  • 23:28: Spottygamester: Unless it isn't like this on the list and I got confused with something else. The list is very large, so it's kind of easy to forget minor errors like that.
  • 23:28: Pokemonfreak777: ok. yeah i dont think i put that on the page cuz i had forgotten about it
  • 23:30: Pokemonfreak777: but the way i approach it is to list all the games that rip that song in a subpoint of the song. for the artist/medium, i list any associated playlists at the top. sometimes there is overlap
  • 23:30: Spottygamester: I see.
  • 23:31: Pokemonfreak777: i can add an additional section to the page after the roblox event ends to make it clearer while attempting to make a crude discord version here
  • 23:33: Peacock Roy: took me a bit to figure this out but it makes sense and i dont have any questions
  • 23:33: Spottygamester: Sure, I'd prefer if it was voted along with the other parts of the formatting during this though.
  • 23:33: Pokemonfreak777:
===Artist/Medium A===
See also: Playlist A, Playlist B,...
*'''Song A''': [[Rip 1]], [[Rip 2]],...
**For rips of the track, see Playlist A
  • 23:34: Spottygamester: That makes sense to me.
  • 23:35: Spottygamester: Do you want to add it to your user page on the topic so we can vote on it as well?
  • 23:36: Pokemonfreak777: im currently adding it to the page i linked above
  • 23:37: Spottygamester: Cool.
  • 23:41: Spottygamester: I hope this hasn't been inconvenient for you.
  • 23:41: Minindo: I think it might be
  • 23:43: Spottygamester: I don't think it does since the people who attend moots tend to be different then the ones who regularly speak in the server from what I've noticed.
  • 23:44: Pokemonfreak777: ok i added it, with some additional information on how it would look on the playlist end
  • 23:44: Minindo: that is true. this one definitely feels less active though
  • 23:44: Minindo: maybe just because the most recent one was unusually productive
  • 23:44: Spottygamester: I think it's that yeah.
  • 23:45: Spottygamester: Plus ZachHasArrived is unavaible at the moment, so their topics aren't being discussed.
  • 23:45: Spottygamester: Moots tend to vary a lot on how much gets done during them, but we're getting off-topic.
  • 23:46: ZachHasArrived: (I actually made it to my computer today; we can get to my topics whenever)
  • 23:46: Spottygamester: Also I wasn't trying to call you out Zach, sorry if it came that way.
  • 23:46: Spottygamester: Oh okay.
  • 23:46: Spottygamester: I'll do the vote on pokemonfreak's topic just now though.
  • 23:48: Spottygamester: ===

We will incorporate pokemonfreak's formatting rules for the list of songs featured in rips into the Lists section of the wiki's manual of style.
User:Pokemonfreak777/Proposed LOSFIR Structures

5-0-0

  • 23:50: Spottygamester: Alright then, do you want to discuss your proposals @ZachHasArrived?
  • 23:50: ZachHasArrived: Sure. Let's do the JE one first since that seems the simplest.
  • 23:50: Spottygamester: I'm for it.
  • 23:50: Peacock Roy: i support the JE7K page
  • 23:50: Peacock Roy: seems pretty deserved at this point
  • 23:51: Pokemonfreak777: same. i always found it weird that it linked to the haltmanns archive video about JE7K instead of its own page
  • 23:51: Spottygamester: I think I might have suggested creating a category for rips with comments from the Joke Explainer at some point as well.
  • 23:52: ZachHasArrived: That redirect has over 20 uses btw
  • 23:52: Spottygamester: They've appeared in multiple different storylines as well.
  • 23:53: Spottygamester: The 2019 Halloween and Doomfes events for example.
  • 23:53: Peacock Roy: Not to mention individual appearances like the Welcome to SiIva video and a few promo arts
  • 23:53: Spottygamester: Oh yeah, that too.
  • 23:53: Pokemonfreak777: yeah i think if the article refers to the character, it should go to a character page. linking to the video should only be if the article specifically mentions the video
  • 23:54: Spottygamester: Making a character page for them feels long overdue at this point.
  • 23:54: Peacock Roy: That video is older than stuff like halloween 2019 so its not even like its a particularly up-to-date page to be using on top of all of that
  • 23:55: Spottygamester: I might make this a separate topic for a future moot, since it feels a bit more complicated then making a character page for them.
  • 23:56: Pokemonfreak777: yeah what goes into the character page would probably be better as another moot topic, since there are more sources to incorporate, not just the haltmann video
  • 23:56: Spottygamester: I meant making a category for rips that have comments by them, not what goes in their character page.
  • 23:57: Pokemonfreak777: oh my bad. yeah that probably also needs a separate topic
  • 23:57: Spottygamester: Yeah.
  • 23:57: Spottygamester: Anyway, I'll start the vote in a second.
  • 23:58: Spottygamester: ===

We will make a character page for the Joke-Explainer 7000.

5-0-0

This was one of them.

This was the other.

  • 0:06: Peacock Roy: link broke Bob-Omb Battlefield (NTSC Version) - Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games
  • 0:07: Pokemonfreak777: i think the current criteria proposed by minindo covers both though
  • 0:07: Spottygamester: I don't agree with the idea of having rips that don't include visuals in the category, since the entire point of YTPMVs is having visuals. The "MV" in it litterly stands for "Music Video", so having stuff that has no visuals would probably end up making the category be kind of bloated.
  • 0:07: Spottygamester: Just feels like it would make the category really overreaching.
  • 0:08: Pokemonfreak777: bob-omb would meet 2 and 3 and silence would meet 1 and 3
  • 0:13: Spottygamester: This rip is a good example of what I mean by this list making it too broad. It primarily features sources that are used in YTPMVs, does have some pitch-shifting, but has no visuals. It would meet the criteria for being classified as a "YTPMV rip" under these rules.


However, if you take a listen to it, can you really call this a YTPMV? Sure, it does have some pitch-shifting of sources, but most of it comes from melody changes with the track itself, or mashing it up with another song on occasion. So calling this a YTPMV feels like a huge stretch to me. [1]

  • 0:15: ZachHasArrived: Yeah I agree. Rips like these feel more like "rips that use YTPMV sources" rather than a proper YTPMV.
  • 0:16: Spottygamester: I do think the "Silence (Beta Mix) (Beta Mix) - F-Zero" rip would count, since it's clearly meant to be a YTPMV, but without any audio.
  • 0:17: ZachHasArrived: Right. I was going to bring up how it's kind of comparable to how "Tutorial - Friday Night Funkin'" counts as a rip featuring Megalovania even though it technically isn't present.
  • 0:18: Spottygamester: I think that one features the notes of the track?
  • 0:18: Spottygamester: So it does make sense in that case, at least to me.
  • 0:18: ZachHasArrived: Yeah, but the audio isn't there. That's what I meant.
  • 0:18: Spottygamester: Ah, I see.
  • 0:18: Pokemonfreak777: going off of minindo's criteria, maybe we can make criteria 1 a mandatory requirement, and it needs to have either criteria 2 or criteria 3 as a second?
  • 0:19: Spottygamester: I think that would work better.
  • 0:20: Spottygamester: Since I feel it would cause less problems, though I get this is probably a controversial opinion.
  • 0:20: ZachHasArrived: 3 should be reworded; anything should be able to be used in a YTPMV whether it's a common source or not.
  • 0:20: Spottygamester: Agreed
  • 0:21: Pokemonfreak777: actually looking at criteria 2, is it perhaps too broad?

Spottygamester pinned a message to this channel. See all messages. — September 3, 2023 at 01:21

  • 0:21: Pokemonfreak777: there are a lot of rips with visuals and use pitch-shifting that i wouldnt consider YTPMVs
  • 0:21: Spottygamester: Pinning minindo's message just so we don't have to keep scrolling back up to read it.
  • 0:22: Spottygamester: Do you have any examples? I feel like it's probably far fewer then rips that have pitch-shifting but no visuals.
  • 0:24: Pokemonfreak777: i guess maybe this one? Astronaut in the Ocean - Masked Wolf - Astronaut Tiles Hop Beat
  • 0:25: Spottygamester: Okay, that's a good point.
  • 0:25: Spottygamester: Most of the character dedicated snow halation rips do that as well.
  • 0:25: Pokemonfreak777: i used autowikibrowser on the two categories and got a list thats ~650 rips long
  • 0:25: ZachHasArrived: I thought I brought up in my initial criteria that the visuals had to be in sync with the audio.
  • 0:27: Spottygamester: That would probably work better.
  • 0:27: Spottygamester: Since it's much more specific.
  • 0:27: Pokemonfreak777: yeah i agree that would probably be better as well
  • 0:28: Spottygamester: Since YTPMVs have a very distinct style.
  • 0:30: Pokemonfreak777: so how should we deal with criteria 3? i also think that there should not be a restriction on what sources are used in a ytpmv
  • 0:30: Spottygamester: I don't think there should be a restriction on what sources are used at all.
  • 0:30: Spottygamester: The sources that are used shouldn't matter in defining a type of rip.
  • 0:31: Spottygamester: It's like saying that a rip can only be called a melodyswap if it has "Meet the Flintstones" or "Snow halation" in it.
  • 0:31: ZachHasArrived: (He edited "should" to "shouldn't")
  • 0:32: Spottygamester: Oh I see.
  • 0:32: Pokemonfreak777: thats not what i edited lol. but yeah it is "shouldn't"
  • 0:32: Spottygamester: My point still stands though.
  • 0:32: Spottygamester: Honestly I feel like this should be the main definition of them.
  • 0:33: Spottygamester: I'm not sure what else to add though, I feel like there's something important we're not considering here.
  • 0:33: Peacock Roy: you could just axe 3 and make the first two the hard and fast rules (provided theyre updated based on this discussion)
  • 0:34: Pokemonfreak777: well the "silence" rip has no audio to be in sync with
  • 0:35: Pokemonfreak777: unless we make that an exception since its so minor
  • 0:35: Spottygamester: Could something like this work as a starting point?
A rip is defined as a YTPMV if it has sources pitch-shifted to the track along with visuals that are in-sync with the audio.
  • 0:35: ZachHasArrived: I think "Silence" can just be an outlier, yeah. I don't think there's any other rip like it.
  • 0:35: Peacock Roy: me on my way to make 20 more silent ytpmvs
  • 0:36: Spottygamester: I'm fine with excluding "Silence (Beta Mix) (Beta Mix) - F-Zero" as well.
  • 0:37: Spottygamester: I'd like to know your thoughts on this topic as well @minindo, since you seem to have a lot to say on it in the past.
  • 0:37: Pokemonfreak777: yeah honestly that would make sense. i mean they are called "Youtube Poop Music Videos", so having "music" and "video" is basically mandatory
  • 0:38: Pokemonfreak777: and theres nothing wrong with saying something is in the style of a YTPMV but not outright saying it is, which the articles on those rips already kinda do anyway
  • 0:39: Spottygamester: That's an excellent point.
  • 0:41: ZachHasArrived: Anything else we should discuss before voting?
  • 0:41: Spottygamester: I was waiting to see if minindo had anything to say on it.
  • 0:42: Spottygamester: I assume he's probably just busy with overthings at the moment.
  • 0:42: Minindo: There's something happening right now spotty lol
  • 0:42: Spottygamester: Oh my bad.
  • 0:42: Spottygamester: Oh wait, I get what you mean.
  • 0:43: Spottygamester: Uhh.
  • 0:43: Minindo: yeah
  • 0:43: Pokemonfreak777: yeah theres an entire roblox event lol
  • 0:43: Spottygamester: Do you want to speak during this or do you want to pass?
  • 0:43: Minindo: I'll speak anyway
  • 0:43: Spottygamester: Okay.
  • 0:48: Minindo: I disagree with always having visuals. I think my 2 out of 3 criteria is good because yes there are exceptions to having visuals that are obviously ytpmvs, "Bob-Omb Battlefield (NTSC Version) - Mario & Sonic at the Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games" hits criteria 2 and 3, great.


It's not a restriction it's just one criteria out of the two-out-of-three criteria model

  • 0:50: ZachHasArrived: I dunno, I think the "music video" part of YTPMVs is pretty important. Otherwise the definitions gets a little too broad.
  • 0:50: ZachHasArrived: ^
  • 0:50: Spottygamester: That's my stance on it as well.
  • 0:53: Spottygamester: I get why you want rips like these to count minindo, but the reality with making criteria for things like this is that you have to make a clear definition of what something is so that it doesn't create confusion on what counts towards it.
  • 0:54: Spottygamester: This is espcially true regarding something as YTPMVs, which have a very specific style to them.
  • 0:56: Spottygamester: So it makes sense to me for the definition to be extremely specific, and I understand that can cause somethings to be left out, but the true is that for me personally, I don't see what's being left out are YTPMVs in the first place.
  • 0:56: Spottygamester: That's just my take on it though.
  • 0:57: Minindo: I strongly think that they are, I use bob-omb battlefield as a case study because it's easy to point to but there's so many that are "obviously" ytpmvs but don't have visuals, and the other two criteria will take care of them
  • 0:59: Spottygamester: I get where you're coming from, but I respectively disagree.
  • 0:59: Spottygamester: I really think making visuals a non-mandatory requirement for this will make it way too broad.
  • 1:01: Spottygamester: I'm going to wait and see what anyone else has to say on this before we move to the vote.
  • 1:02: Spottygamester: This will also be the final topic for today as well since it's getting late.
  • 1:03: Spottygamester: Alright, I'm going to start the vote in a second.
  • 1:06: Spottygamester: ===

We will create a category called "YTPMV rips" that will include rips that meet the following definition: 

A rip is defined as a YTPMV if it has sources pitch-shifted to the track along with visuals that are in-sync with the audio.

3-2-1

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