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SiIvaGunner Wiki:Moot/Log 2023 October

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* ZachHasArrived - Create a "Rips referencing "Athletic Doctor"" category
* Maggie - Split the Idols series navbox into smaller ones for each series, similar to what happened with the Comic books navbox
* Ironwestie (presented by Spottygamester) - Split the List of playlists and List of songs featured in rips lists by individual letter (see my user page)
* Maggie - Split the Flintstones series navbox into smaller ones for The Flintstones, The Simpsons, and Family Guy
* Pokemonfreak777 - Revisit series navboxes' determination from July 2022 Moot ("By companies" section)

Spottygamester pinned a message to this channel. See all pinned messages. — Yesterday at 4:01 PM

  • 23:01: Spottygamester: Hello ZachHasArrived.
  • 23:02: ArchieGoldRips: Hey
  • 23:02: Spottygamester: Hi Archie.
  • 23:03: Spottygamester: Will late a bit more to see if anyone else shows up.
  • 23:05: Spottygamester: Okay, that's enough time.
  • 23:06: Spottygamester: Let's discuss our first topic, which comes from @ZachHasArrived.
  • 23:06: ZachHasArrived: Alright.
  • 23:06: ZachHasArrived: There are over 50 rips that reference "Athletic Theme (PAL Version) - Super Mario World". Given this rip has been referenced far more times than any other rip on the channel, I think it deserves its own category. Plus, it would remove clutter from the "Rips referencing other rips" page.
  • 23:07: Spottygamester: I completely agree.
  • 23:07: ZachHasArrived: Also, just to be clear, this wouldn't be a meme, it'd be like the "Rips referencing Triple-Q" category.
  • 23:08: Spottygamester: I think it's pretty clear that "Athletic Doctor" is a special case when it comes to frequently referenced rips at this point that it deserves its own category.
  • 23:08: Pokemonfreak777: [in reply to ZachHasArrived: There are over 50 rips that reference...] I agree with this, although I have a question
  • should this category include only rips that reference both "Witch Doctor" and "Athletic Theme", or can it include ones that include either?
  • Recreations of the original rip using other versions of "Athletic Theme"
  • Medley rips that place the melodies of "Witch Doctor" and "Athletic Theme" next to each other
  • Inverses of the original rip (e.g. He's Quagmire - Family Guy Video Game!, Athletic Theme (NTSC Version) - Super Mario World)
There might be others that could count towards that, but that's just my take on it.
  • 23:16: Spottygamester: I'm not sure if the recent trend of other PAL Version rips of SMW tracks with jokes relating to Cartoons should count.
  • 23:17: Pokemonfreak777: ok. then would these also go in a "athletic theme" and/or "witch doctor" meme category as well?
  • 23:17: Spottygamester: I think so.
  • 23:17: Spottygamester: ZachHasArrived did suggest making it a rips referencing category and not a rips featuring category.
  • 23:17: ZachHasArrived: I think they should. It feels intentional.
  • 23:18: Spottygamester: I'm mixed on it myself, but I don't mind including them.
  • 23:18: Spottygamester: It does come off as an intentional reference to it.
  • 23:19: Spottygamester: I don't think rips like this should count though, since something like this has only occurred once according to the list.
Hartmann's Youkai Girl (PAL Version) - Touhou 11: Subterranean Animism
we have three categories: athletic theme, witch doctor, athletic doctor
uses athletic theme AND witch doctor in close proximity (back-to-back or at the same time)
  • categories: athletic theme, witch doctor, athletic doctor
uses athletic theme OR witch doctor
  • categories: athletic theme/witch doctor (depending on which is used)
uses PAL with cartoons
  • categories: athletic doctor
  • 23:20: Spottygamester: That makes sense to me.
  • 23:21: Spottygamester: Though when it comes to medley rips in the first case, I do think it should only be instances where the two songs are placed next to each other, or play at the same time.
  • 23:21: Pokemonfreak777: yeah that makes sense
  • 23:24: Spottygamester: I'm looking at the list again to see if there's anything else I wouldn't include and the only one that sticks out to me is that Hartmann's Youkai Girl rip.
  • 23:25: Spottygamester: Does anyone have any thoughts on including/excluding that rip?
  • 23:26: ZachHasArrived: I think it should be included. They could have chosen any mix name but went with that one.
  • 23:26: Spottygamester: That's a good point.
  • 23:27: Pokemonfreak777: yeah i think its still a reference even if it doesnt have athletic theme
  • 23:27: Spottygamester: Alright, I think we'll just move the current list into the new category instead of making a set of new critiria for it, since everything listed in it would already count.
  • 23:28: Spottygamester: Does anyone have anything else they want to add before we vote?
  • 23:28: ZachHasArrived: I'm good.
  • 23:28: Pokemonfreak777: i think on the category page we should have a note explicitly mentioning what needs to be met to add new entries to the category
  • 23:31: Spottygamester: Added more to the list I posted early. Would this work as a set of criteria?
  • Recreations of the original rip using other versions of "Athletic Theme"
  • Rips that place the melodies of "Witch Doctor" and "Athletic Theme" next to each other, or at the same time
  • Inverses of the original rip (e.g. He's Quagmire - Family Guy Video Game!, Athletic Theme (NTSC Version) - Super Mario World)
  • Rips of other Super Mario World songs that use the PAL Version mix name and primarily feature a joke relating to the band Cartoons
  • Rips of other games that use the PAL Version mix name and primarily use the Cartoon's version of "Witch Doctor"
We will create a "Rips referencing Athletic Doctor" category that will contain rips that reference the "Athletic Theme (PAL Version) - Super Mario World" rip. Rips that meet one of the following set of criteria would count as a reference to the rip:
* Recreations of the original rip using other versions of "Athletic Theme"
* Rips that place the melodies of "Witch Doctor" and "Athletic Theme" next to each other, or at the same time
* Inverses of the original rip (e.g. He's Quagmire - Family Guy Video Game!, Athletic Theme (NTSC Version) - Super Mario World)
* Rips of other Super Mario World songs that use the PAL Version mix name and primarily feature a joke relating to the band Cartoons
* Rips of other games that use the PAL Version mix name and primarily use the Cartoon's version of "Witch Doctor"
5-0-0
  • 23:39: Spottygamester: That settles that topic. We can always change the title of it later if people take issue with it, but I think it works for now.
  • 23:40: Pokemonfreak777: before we move on to the next topic, should we also officially approve meme categories for "athletic theme" and "witch doctor" individually?
  • 23:40: Spottygamester: I don't think we need to?
  • 23:41: Spottygamester: I'm pretty sure if a source meets the already established criteria it gets a category.
  • 23:41: Pokemonfreak777: lol okay then
  • 23:42: Spottygamester: I don't want to really spend time doing a vote since they already meet the criteria and I think everyone would agree with it anyway.
  • 23:42: Pokemonfreak777: fair enough
  • 23:42: Spottygamester: Anyway, lets move on to our next topic. You have the floor now @Maggie.
  • 23:42: Peacock Roy: hello
  • 23:45: Peacock Roy: right so, the Idols navbox has a similar issue to the Comic books navbox (rest in pepperoni) where a lot of disparate series/franchises/brands are lumped together despite not actually having much in common besides thematic elements, anyway i want to propose a split similar to what happened before and here are some prototypes or however youd call them of how they can be split off User:Peacock Roy/sandbox
  • 23:45: Spottygamester: I don't have any issues with this idea.
  • 23:46: Spottygamester: Love Live in particular deserves its own navbox at this point.
  • 23:46: Peacock Roy: absolutely
  • 23:47: Pokemonfreak777: took a look at the splits and they look good to me. a few notes/fun facts:
  • d4dj groovy mix is d4dj and is the only reference (except for the death threats rip i guess) afaik so that doesnt need a navbox
  • lazulight is nijisanji fangame. there are other references to nijisanji on the channel but overall it also doesnt need a navbox i dont think. we could link to the other references tho
  • nijikart is love live related and should go in the love live navbox
  • 23:48: Peacock Roy: oh right
  • 23:48: Peacock Roy: i got nijigasaki and nijisanji mixed up lol
  • 23:49: Spottygamester: Honestly, splitting the idol navbox into smaller ones is long overdue to me now that I look at these examples you've listed here Maggie.
  • 23:50: Peacock Roy: its probably more justified than the comic book split but i didnt want to propose the big changes right away
  • 23:50: Spottygamester: I get you.
  • 23:51: Spottygamester: Do you want to move on to the vote? I don't have anything else to add on this myself.
  • 23:53: Spottygamester: Let's do the vote now.
  • 23:54: Spottygamester: ===
We will split the idol series navbox into navboxes for Love Live, The idolmaster, Vocaloid and Hololive based on Maggie's draft.
User:Peacock Roy/sandbox
4-0-0
  • 23:57: Spottygamester: Okay, the next topic is a proposal from ironwestie that I will be presenting on his behalf since he is unable to attend the moot today.
  • 23:57: Spottygamester:
Split the List of playlists and List of songs featured in rips lists by individual letter
  • 23:59: Spottygamester: iron has made a user page going into detail about this that I have copied below so you can read it here and for archival purposes.
User:Ironwestie/List of songs featured in rips#Template:SongsFeaturedInRips proposal
Many of the lists, including List of songs featured in rips and List of playlists are very long, and take a long time to read, especially on mobile.

This change would split all of the lists letter by letter with the exception of the last six letters of the alphabet, which are represented "UVW" instead of using a dash.

I believe this change would greatly enhance navigation for readers and editors, decrease load times and scroll times, and make it easier to link pages. I can set up my bot to perform these changes as well.

Credit to Saunt3D for the idea and the template format.
  • 0:00: Pokemonfreak777: yeah i definitely agree with this change. as someone who edits those lists frequently, i've noticed the really long load times, so this would help a lot
  • 0:01: Spottygamester: I completely agree with his pitch, since the current formatting for it was when the list was smaller and it's grown in size so much since then that the current method doesn't fit it anymore.
  • 0:01: ZachHasArrived: I'm down with this. The only change I'd make is with the navbox; the links being all lowercase looks a little strange.
  • 0:02: Zacharrry: the only concern i have is how would that affect this template {{F}}
  • 0:03: Pokemonfreak777: another concern i just noticed: for numbers linking to the pound sign takes you to a "special" page, which probably shouldnt?
  • 0:04: Spottygamester: I'm not sure how to fix stuff like that myself. I don't really know the more technical things when it comes to fandom.
  • 0:04: Pokemonfreak777: instead of the pound sign, maybe "Number" would work?
  • 0:04: Spottygamester: I'm pretty sure we can fix stuff like that to make it fit the new list layout though.
  • 0:05: Spottygamester: What do you mean about the pound sign problem pokemon? I don't think I've ever ran into that issue myself.
  • 0:05: Pokemonfreak777: looking at the source code i think its a simple fix of moving each letter to link to its own page instead of grouping them
  • 0:06: Pokemonfreak777: so if you click on the template for # , it directs you to create a page called "List of songs featured in rips/Special" and not "List of songs featured in rips/#" as expected
  • 0:07: Pokemonfreak777: so i think we should change the link to "Number" and create the page at "List of songs featured in rips/Number" instead
  • 0:08: Pokemonfreak777: cuz the pound sign has special function in a url hence that behavior
  • 0:08: Ironwestie: Hello! Just got home so I can pitch in for the rest of the moot
  • 0:08: Spottygamester: Hi iron.
  • 0:08: Spottygamester: You came at a good time since we're talking about more technical stuff regarding your proposal.
  • 0:09: Ironwestie: Regarding "Special" vs "Number", "Special" is used because # is reserved for sections (e.g. List of songs featured in rips/A#Artist
  • 0:10: Ironwestie: I think "Number" would also be fine, though I think using "Special" allows us to cover non-unicode names (like Japanese names, for example)
  • 0:11: Pokemonfreak777: doesnt special refer to pages that have additional functionalities in running a wiki?
  • 0:11: Pokemonfreak777: pages like Special:UncategorizedPages
  • 0:12: Ironwestie: Yes, the Special namespace is used on wikis for pages like Special:WhatLinksHere. I meant using "Special" as the name of a subpage of List of songs featured in rips
  • 0:13: Pokemonfreak777: im just not sure if this would have unintended side effects
  • 0:13: Ironwestie: It shouldn't. The Special namespace is separate from pages with names that include the word "Special"
  • 0:14: Ironwestie: List of songs featured in rips/Special would still be in the Main namespace with all of the other list subpages
  • 0:15: Pokemonfreak777: oh wait i looked at the source code and its linked differently than what i thought originally. there is no issue anymore
  • 0:16: Ironwestie: Sounds good. Any other questions / comments about this proposal?
  • 0:17: Ironwestie: Regarding {{F}}, it wouldn't be very difficult to modify the template to point to the correct subpage
  • 0:17: Spottygamester: I don't have any questions on the topic myself.
  • 0:18: Ironwestie: Shall we call a vote, then?
  • 0:18: Spottygamester: Sure.
  • 0:19: Spottygamester: ===
We will split the List of playlists and List of songs featured in rips lists by individual letter.
3-2-0
  • 0:21: Spottygamester: Okay, next topic. This is another one from @Maggie.
  • 0:21: Peacock Roy: hello again
  • 0:24: Peacock Roy: so this is the last navbox split i want to propose, its always struck me as kind of weird that even in 2023 we still have The Simpsons and Family Guy in the Flintstones navbox, i understand why they're there because of the lore but it seems counterproductive to keep them lumped together when they can count as their own things, im just not sure how popular this split would be because of the lore or whatever. i dont have any drafts on this one but this is what it currently looks like {{Flintstones}}
  • 0:24: Spottygamester: I've never really gotten that quirk with the navbox either.
  • 0:24: Pokemonfreak777: i think they should be split honestly. doesnt really make sense to keep them in the same navbox to me
  • 0:25: Pokemonfreak777: im not really a lore person either so yeah
  • 0:25: Ironwestie: Agreed on the split. I don't recall any conversation about keeping to lore, either
  • 0:25: Spottygamester: I think it's just something that kind of happened naturally.
  • 0:26: Spottygamester: I'm pretty sure the flintstones navbox has always been like this and nobody really questioned it as a result.
  • 0:26: Pokemonfreak777: maybe thats why the idol navbox came to be as well? idk just speculating
  • 0:26: Ironwestie: I just looked, at and apparently we had a The Simpsons that was deleted because the games were in the Flintstones nav, haha
  • 0:26: Peacock Roy: I think its just what certain people would call "early installment weirdness"
  • 0:26: Spottygamester: Pretty much.
  • 0:27: Spottygamester: The Simpsons itself should absolutely get its own navbox due to it having multiple sub-memes attached to it.
  • 0:27: Ironwestie: Let me undelete the old template and we can edit it as needed
  • 0:28: Ironwestie: {{The Simpsons}} - last edited January 2022
  • 0:28: Spottygamester: Family Guy also has five games of the series ripped as well as a whole event dedicated to it.
  • 0:28: Pokemonfreak777: family guy might be a smaller navbox but at this point i think it should get one
  • 0:28: Pokemonfreak777: we have other navboxes with more questionable content sizes anyways
  • 0:28: Peacock Roy: i think if it can be spun off it should
  • 0:29: Ironwestie: So Maggie, would you like us to just vote on whether we should split the navbox, or would you also want to propose a specific way of splitting it?
  • 0:30: Peacock Roy: i think the former is fine, i think it would follow that the simpsons and family guy would be spun off based on whats in the navbox
  • 0:31: Ironwestie: Okay. So, just to confirm: we're voting on whether to split the Flintstones navbox into a Flintstones navbox, a Simpsons navbox, and a Family Guy navbox
  • 0:32: Spottygamester: That seems to be the case to me.
  • 0:32: Ironwestie: Looks like there's consensus for a vote
  • 0:33: Spottygamester: I'll do it just now then.
  • 0:34: Spottygamester: ===
We will split The Flintstones navbox into separate navboxes for The Flintstones, The Simpsons and Family Guy.
5-0-0
List of video games by company
  • 0:37: Pokemonfreak777: since then, that page isnt really being used, and navboxes for companies are still being made, so i was wondering (similar to composers from last time) if the sentiment has changed since then
  • 0:39: Spottygamester: I think people just forgot about it.
  • 0:40: Pokemonfreak777: if so, here are my questions:
  • should we re-allow company navboxes and just scrap the list of video games by company page?
  • should we enforce the usage of the "list of video games by company" page and discourage the navboxes more?
  • should we take a similar approach to the composers decision (decide on the current ones if we want to keep/discard, future navboxes require moot discussion)?
  • 0:41: Spottygamester: I think even if we kept the company navboxes I wouldn't want to scrap the list of video games by company.
  • 0:42: Spottygamester: I feel like in this case it wasn't people changing their mind on the company navboxes, but more so the policy not being enforced much which caused people to forget about it.
  • 0:43: Spottygamester: I personally think it should be enforced more.
  • 0:44: Spottygamester: Does anyone else have thoughts on this topic?
  • 0:45: Ironwestie: Nope, I don't have an opinion on the subject
  • 0:45: Pokemonfreak777: btw this was the most recent one created {{Navbox series PlatinumGames}}
  • 0:46: Pokemonfreak777: a lot of them also just show up with no discussion
  • 0:46: Ironwestie: I suspect that people will use the List of video games by company page more if we enforce the ban on company navboxes
  • 0:47: Spottygamester: I feel the same way as well.
  • 0:47: Spottygamester: I don't think many people are aware of the list due to it not being enforced much.
  • 0:48: Pokemonfreak777: ok. so do we get rid of all of the company navboxes once they are moved over or are there a few we want to keep?
  • 0:49: Pokemonfreak777: cuz i think part of the problem also is the fact that the move wasnt entirely complete, in that the navboxes still existed despite having been moved already, which may have confused people
  • 0:50: Spottygamester: I don't think there are any that I would keep.
  • 0:50: Ironwestie: Let's try completing the move first and adhering to the July 2022 decision. I think keeping some and not keeping some would get confusing
  • 0:51: Spottygamester: Agreed.
  • 0:52: Pokemonfreak777: okay. in that case, we should update the list with the new companies and then delete their navbox afterwards. although i dont think ill have time to do it myself (at least not immediately) which could be a concern
  • 0:53: Ironwestie: Let's make a list of companies that need their navboxes deleted and moved, and we can collectively move them over
  • 0:53: Pokemonfreak777: Category:Series navboxes#By companies this is the list basically
  • 0:54: Ironwestie: I'll also add the list to the site nav
  • 0:54: Pokemonfreak777: some of them are already there from last time
  • 0:54: Pokemonfreak777: although they may have been updated since
  • 0:55: Pokemonfreak777: others are not on it because they were made after the initial list
  • 0:55: Ironwestie: sounds good
  • 0:55: Ironwestie: Anything we need to vote on?
  • 0:56: Ironwestie: From my perspective, this is just following through on the July 2022 / August 2022 decisions
  • 0:56: Pokemonfreak777: i guess not really? we're just reaffirming a prior decision
  • 0:57: Spottygamester: Yeah, I don't think this needs a vote since we're not really changing anything.
  • 0:58: Pokemonfreak777: yeah i guess the only change would be to include a note in the content policy about this decision
  • 0:58: Ironwestie: I'll mark the templates for deletion using Joke Explainer
  • 0:58: Ironwestie: I need to head out soon, but I think this should be noted in the moot logs
  • 0:59: Ironwestie: This decision to follow up on removing the templates and using the list, I mean
  • 0:59: Spottygamester: That we're reaffirming the previously made descision?
  • 0:59: Spottygamester: That's how I would word it.
  • 0:59: Ironwestie: Yes
  • 1:00: Ironwestie: Not saying we need a vote, just that this was discussed
  • 1:00: Spottygamester: Sure.
  • 1:00: Spottygamester: Do you all want to call it quits for today then?
  • 1:00: Pokemonfreak777: sure
  • 1:00: Ironwestie: Yep
  • 1:01: Spottygamester: Alright then, see you later everyone.
  • 1:01: Pokemonfreak777: cya
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