SiIvaGunner Wiki:Moot/Log 2022 October 15
- 22:59: Ironwestie: Greetings!
- 23:00: Coolbeans Cruz: 👋
- 23:00: MSL925 the fox: hey
- 23:00: Spottygamester: Hello
- 23:00: ZachHasArrived: Hey
- 23:00: Pokemonfreak777: hello
- 23:00: FelixJeremy: Hey
- 23:00: Mick the Squirrel: hi
- 23:00: Qsie: moot :LILMISSJAMMIN:
- 23:00: Ironwestie: I'll wait another couple of minutes for folks to filter in
- 23:01: Minindo: hi i may or may not be here the whole time
- 23:02: Qsie: mini :FG_MagicDragon_Salute:
- 23:02: Ironwestie: Here is the agenda for the meeting:
- ZachHasArrived - Redefining the "Sans is Ness" meme
- ZachHasArrived - Reformatting rip pages with "special" titles
- MSL925 the fox - A consistent way of presenting events.
- MSL925 the fox - A page for more trivia type events
- minindo - "Amount of rippers using a meme" qualification per the last moot, see here for details if I'm unable to make it
- Ironwestie - List of playlists is too large. We need to split it up into smaller parts (User:Ironwestie/List of playlists, User:Ironwestie/List of playlists/0–E).
- Ironwestie - Coconut Gun is not a meme, it's just a part of Donkey Kong and DK Rap that isn't distinct enough to have its own page
- Mick - After pokemonfreak's previous rules were set, can these be added as memes? [list]
Spottygamester - Remove the indirect contributors section from the list of contributors
Mick - Inconsistent meme titles and categories
Spottygamester pinned a message to this channel. See all pinned messages. — Yesterday at 23:02
- 23:02: MSL925 the fox: hi qsie
- 23:02: Qsie: :qsieH:
- 23:02: Ironwestie: I will wait another minute before we continue
- 23:02: Minindo: for my part of the agenda i think @Spottygamester offered to introduce it if i couldn’t make it is that right
- 23:02: Minindo: i may have interpreted that wrong
- 23:03: Ironwestie: To not hold up the rest of the moot, I'll let you two sort that out in DMs
- 23:03: Minindo: on the moot page i embedded a link to a user page of mine that has more details
- 23:03: Spottygamester: I meant you could ask anyone. You didn't state me specifically when you brought it up. I can introduce it for this if you want though.
- 23:04: Ironwestie: We have a long agenda today and short time to do it. Let's stay on topic, please
- 23:04: Minindo: yeah i’ll move to dms
- 23:04: Ironwestie: @ZachHasArrived you have the floor
- 23:04: Spottygamester: Sorry, I posted that right when you said that.
- 23:04: ZachHasArrived: Alright, one sec.
- 23:04: ZachHasArrived: The "Sans Is Ness" meme is currently defined as follows:
Rips that reference both the MOTHER and Undertale series, whether quoting an Undertale/EarthBound song in an EarthBound/Undertale rip, or placing songs from both series next to each other in a medley rip.
Rips that reference Game Theory in any way.
Rips featuring Sens.
I feel like this criteria is much too broad and results in several rips being categorized as a "Sans is Ness" reference despite likely not created as such. I would suggest the following changes to this criteria:
- 23:04: ZachHasArrived: Only songs that specifically reference Sans, such as "sans." and "MEGALOVANIA" used with EarthBound songs (not from the MOTHER series as a whole) should count. Because Undertale was heavily inspired by the MOTHER series, many rips referencing the two could simply be making this connection. Rips such as "A Flash of Memory - EarthBound" and "MEGALOVANIA (Extended Mix) - Undertale" would no longer count towards the category if this change is made.
Only Game Theory references that specifically point to the "Sans is Ness" video or used in the context of Undertale/EarthBound music should count. I could honestly go either way for this change; while it makes sense that any Game Theory reference doesn't necessarily reference "Sans is Ness", the fact that several of the album names for rips that feature Game Theory (such as "Character Select - Pocky & Rocky with Becky" and "Stage 2 - Kyattou Ninden Teyandee") do reference the meme, makes me think that even if "Sans is Ness" isn't technically present in the rip itself, the ripper definitely had it in mind. Additionally, a majority of Game Theory references do already reference "Sans is Ness", which might result in a weird "rips featuring" section. Would we list all Game Theory references in the relevant sub-header on the "List of rips referencing YouTubers", or just the ones that don't reference "Sans is Ness" (which would go under the list in the proper category)? Since a majority of Game Theory representation is already "Sans is Ness", should we just go all the way, or would that be considered inaccurate?
Also, I think this was briefly discussed a while ago, but I don't think the main "Sans is Ness" page should be a joke page. It looks weird and it's a bit too long.
- 23:05: ZachHasArrived: Here's the page so you can click on the links: User:ZachHasArrived/My Moot proposals
- 23:06: Spottygamester: I agree with all of this.
- 23:06: Spottygamester: The Sans is Ness meme has been needing a clean up for a long time.
- 23:07: Ironwestie: It makes sense to qualify this meme to just memes that reference Sans + EarthBound and Sans is Ness + EarthBound instead of having it be all Game Theory or MOTHER + Undertale sources
- 23:07: Spottygamester: Yep.
- 23:07: Pokemonfreak777: tbh i have no real opinion on this. i never fully understood the sans is ness meme to begin with so i dont exactly know what to be done about it
- 23:08: Ironwestie: I'm all for this generally. There is the secondary question of the List of rips referencing YouTubers part, but I think that should be discussed as a separate discussion
- 23:08: ZachHasArrived: So are we counting all of Game Theory or just references towards the Sans is Ness video?
- 23:08: Spottygamester: I personally think it should be the latter.
- 23:08: Ironwestie: Ditto
- 23:08: ZachHasArrived: I'm fine with that.
- 23:09: Spottygamester: Also agree with rewriting the meme article for it.
- 23:09: Ironwestie: Any thoughts from the others?
- 23:09: Mick the Squirrel: rips that reference sans is ness only through the track title can be listed on the category, but shouldn't be in the category
- 23:10: Mick the Squirrel: just add "(track title)" next to the rip on the list.
- 23:10: Spottygamester: I'm not sure about doing that tbh.
- 23:10: Spottygamester: Though I can see the argument for it.
- 23:11: Pokemonfreak777: so on this page, what sections would be removed/kept as a result of this change? Category:Rips featuring Sans is Ness
- 23:11: Spottygamester: Well everything that only uses "Science Blaster" for starters.
- 23:12: Ironwestie: Agreed. I don't think Sans is Ness means all Game Theory references
- 23:12: Spottygamester: I think rips that only reference "Why I Gave the Pope UNDERTALE!" shouldn't count towards it either since it's from a different video.
- 23:13: Ironwestie: Okay, in the interest of time, I think we should only vote on the main points of this proposal
- 23:13: Spottygamester: Fine with me.
- 23:14: Ironwestie: Which are:
- Only songs that specifically reference Sans (e.g. "sans." and "MEGALOVANIA") should count (only EarthBound songs, not MOTHER/MOTHER 3 songs)[...]
- Only Game Theory references that specifically point to the "Sans is Ness" video or used in the context of Undertale/EarthBound music should count.[...]
- 23:14: Ironwestie: Any further thoughts before we vote?
- 23:14: FelixJeremy: The only improve I will ask is probably to repload the Doom Eternal on a google drive so we cant still enjoy the deleted rips
- 23:14: Ironwestie: Eddie, we are not talking about that right now.
- 23:14: FelixJeremy: sorry
- 23:15: ZachHasArrived: On the first point, only EarthBound songs, not MOTHER/MOTHER 3 songs count as well.
- 23:15: Spottygamester: That's a good point.
- 23:15: Ironwestie: Edited
- 23:15: Ironwestie: Okay, voting time:
- 23:16: Ironwestie: Summary: The criteria for the Sans is Ness meme will be qualified to the following criteria
- Only songs that specifically reference Sans (e.g. "sans." and "MEGALOVANIA") should count (only EarthBound songs, not MOTHER/MOTHER 3 songs)[...]
- Only Game Theory references that specifically point to the "Sans is Ness" video or used in the context of Undertale/EarthBound music should count.[...]
-=-
- 23:16: Pokemonfreak777: 1.
2.
- 23:16: ZachHasArrived:
- 23:16: MSL925 the fox: 1.
2.
- 23:16: Ironwestie: 1.
2.
- 23:16: Spottygamester: 1.
2.
- 23:16: Coolbeans Cruz: 1.
2.
- 23:17: Ironwestie: ====
- 23:17: Ironwestie: 6-0-0 for both
- 23:17: Ironwestie: @ZachHasArrived please continue with your second proposal
- 23:17: ZachHasArrived: Okay.
- 23:17: ZachHasArrived: Currently, if two or more rips have the same title, the removed/older one will have some sort of additional label in its page title to differentiate it from the active/newer one (examples include "Dream Land - Super Smash Bros. (GiIvaSunner)", "King Dedede's Theme - Super Smash Bros. Brawl (removed)", and "Base - Contra (August 18, 2022)").
An idea I had was to reformat these page titles to display the part of the title that isn't part of the rip name in small text (like this). Currently, I think these additional labels can be confused for mix names at a glance, and if they were formatted almost as a footnote, it'd be clearer that they're not actually part of the rip title. I got this idea after seeing the page for "Battle! (Wild Pokémon) - Pokémon Ruby & Sapphire (May 30, 2016)", which uses this format, so you can look there to see what it looks like.
In addition, I also think whenever one of these rips has to be listed in one of the "list of songs featured in rips" pages or in the "references in other rips" section of a game's category page, the "special" label should also be formatted in small text (like it is here). This wiki doesn't really have defined format for either of these lists, but when it comes to these types of rips, I think formatting them this way is a lot more organized (compared to how it is here).
- 23:18: ZachHasArrived: And here the page again for the links: User:ZachHasArrived/My Moot proposals
- 23:18: Mick the Squirrel: makes sense, i agree.
- 23:19: Pokemonfreak777: I'm okay with this. it's a minor change that can help distinguish mix names from distinguishing labels
- 23:19: Ironwestie: So the main change is just to make the parenthetical part of the title appear smaller?
- 23:19: ZachHasArrived: Yeah.
- 23:19: Spottygamester: That does make more sense.
- 23:19: Pokemonfreak777: i guess a related relevant question is how much smaller
- 23:20: Spottygamester: Probably not by a lot.
- 23:20: Pokemonfreak777: the example given still looks the same size as before despite being smaller
- 23:20: Ironwestie: I'm neutral on this, personally. I have never had a problem with how large the text is, and I'm not sure if this is actually helpful
- 23:20: Minindo: Just looked at the page for Battle! (Wild Pokémon) - Pokémon Ruby & Sapphire (May 30, 2016)
I think that's a great idea and looks nice, but yeah I feel that it could be a size smaller
- 23:22: Pokemonfreak777: like it should be small enough that you can clearly distinguish it from a mix name but not too small such that you can barely see it
- 23:22: Ironwestie: How much smaller are we thinking?
- 23:22: ZachHasArrived: Also, remember this isn't just about the page title. There's also the change on the "list of songs featured in rips".
- 23:22: Spottygamester: Maybe one size smaller?
- 23:23: Ironwestie: Hm, I have just taken a look at the DISPLAYTITLE functionality on Mediawiki
- 23:24: Pokemonfreak777: currently the page uses "small"
- 23:24: Ironwestie:
Format the current page's title header. The value must be equivalent to the default title: only capitalization changes to certain parts of the title (not all) and replacing spaces with underscores are allowed (this can be changed with $wgRestrictDisplayTitle). [...]
https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Magic_words#DISPLAYTITLE
- 23:24: Pokemonfreak777: also i found this which could help gauge an appropriate size [1]
- 23:24: Ironwestie: I know Fandom allows it, but I am not sure if adding more HTML to the DISPLAYTITLE will cause unintended behavior
- 23:25: ZachHasArrived: I'm fine with the size on the example page, personally.
- 23:25: Spottygamester: The second size after it looks too small imo.
- 23:26: ZachHasArrived: It just has to be a minor distinguishing feature.
- 23:26: Spottygamester: I'm alright with the example size myself as well.
- 23:27: Ironwestie: The more I look into this from a programming perspective, the less I am sure that this is a good idea, at least for the DISPLAYTITLE part. I need to do some more research about it
- 23:28: Ironwestie: I'm fine with the List of songs / references in other rips sections changes, although I'm also pretty sure that it is not intended to be used this way
- 23:28: Ironwestie: Anyway, thoughts before we vote?
- 23:29: Spottygamester: I don't have any myself.
- 23:30: Ironwestie: Okay. We will vote for the two suggestions. For the reformatting / displaytitle part, this vote is for the current suggested size (using <small> tags)
- 23:32: Ironwestie: Summary: Rips that end with special, parenthetical parts of their titles (e.g. (removed), (August 18, 2022)) that are not part of the actual rip's title will be reformatted so that the parenthetical parts appear smaller:
1. The titles will be reformatted using {{tl}}
2. Links to these pages on List of songs featuring in rips or in the "References in other rips" section of a game's category page should be formatted with the <small> tags as well
- 23:32: Ironwestie: =-=
- 23:33: Pokemonfreak777: 1.
2.
- 23:33: Ironwestie: 1.
2.
- 23:33: Spottygamester: 1.
2.
- 23:33: Coolbeans Cruz: 1.
2.
- 23:33: ZachHasArrived: 1.
2.
- 23:33: Mick the Squirrel:
- 23:33: MSL925 the fox: 1.
2.
- 23:34: Minindo: 1.
2.
- 23:34: Ironwestie: 1. 6-0-2
2. 5-3-0
- 23:35: Ironwestie: sorry I miscounted
- 23:35: Spottygamester: That was more controversial then I thought it was going to be.
- 23:36: Ironwestie: 6-0-2 and 5-3-0 are the final counts. Both proposals go ahead
- 23:36: MSL925 the fox: yeah
- 23:36: Pokemonfreak777: i suppose it might be because it could be more difficult than expected but idk
- 23:36: Ironwestie: @Miles Prower You have the floor
- 23:36: MSL925 the fox: So basically when I want a consistent way of presenting event pages I mean like a consistent way of showing off rips that are apart of the events in the timeline section of the page. Like what I propose is that we have the following:
- All rips related to events be in bold so that its easy way of seeing what is and what is not in a event
- Rips that have been noted as some importance to the day but not related to the event in question should be in italics so that it can be easy to see them and understand what they mean
- We do show other rips that are of the day/days however just do nothing to do them as a way of showing what else was uploaded on that day
- If there are too many or too little rips that are not apart of the event then we do not include them on the page
- 23:37: Mick the Squirrel: would bringing up Rips with notable upload dates in this be offtopic?
- 23:37: Spottygamester: Yes.
- 23:37: Ironwestie: What do you consider being in this category, Miles?
Rips that have been noted as some importance to the day but not related to the event in question should be in italics so that it can be easy to see them and understand what they mean"
- 23:37: MSL925 the fox: yeah i say so
- 23:37: Mick the Squirrel: k
- 23:37: Minindo: i agree with this totally
- 23:37: ZachHasArrived: Strong agree with the first point. It's super inconsistent across event pages.
- 23:37: Minindo: i was just about to mention an example - rips that spelled out relevant things
- 23:38: Minindo: like AMOGUS and FORTNITE for their events
- 23:38: ZachHasArrived: The rest is good too.
- 23:38: MSL925 the fox: its basically like here Ruby Kurosawa's Birthday
- 23:38: Coolbeans Cruz: how much is "too many or too little rips that are not apart of the event then we do not include them on the page"
- 23:38: MSL925 the fox: where alongside the ruby rips
- 23:38: Pokemonfreak777: iirc some of these things have been done on some pages already albeit in an inconsistent way
- 23:38: MSL925 the fox: there were a bunch of september rips
- 23:38: Spottygamester: I agree with all of this. Written formatting rules for event articles are long overdue at this point.
- 23:39: Minindo: that absolutely feels like the best type of thing to be italicized, in contrast to the true event's rips in bold
- 23:39: Ironwestie: Miles can you answer Coolbeans's question? I have the same one
- 23:39: MSL925 the fox: so like yankover
- 23:39: MSL925 the fox: where there is just no need to included non-event rips
- 23:39: Spottygamester: Like the short break that happened midway through it?
- 23:39: MSL925 the fox: yeah
- 23:39: Spottygamester: I agree with that example.
- 23:40: MSL925 the fox: like i just feel tehre is no point since
- 23:40: MSL925 the fox: nothing of that day really had to relate to the rest
- 23:40: Coolbeans Cruz: i agree with the "too many" thing but i'm not too sure about the "too little"
- 23:40: Ironwestie: Okay. I'm fine with not putting a number to "too many"
- 23:41: Spottygamester: I think Miles is referring to some of the idol birthday events.
- 23:41: MSL925 the fox: yeah i dont want a number
- 23:41: MSL925 the fox: since while tehre are no cases now
- 23:41: MSL925 the fox: i feel that it should be decided which most of the time seems pretty easy
- 23:41: Ironwestie: Okay, further thoughts before we vote?
- 23:42: Ironwestie: Voting time, then. compiling summary...
- 23:43: Ironwestie: I'm going to omit
- We do show other rips that are of the day/days however just do nothing to do them as a way of showing what else was uploaded on that day because I interpret this as an explanation not a suggestion
- 23:43: MSL925 the fox: alright
- 23:44: Ironwestie: Summary: New guideline for the rip list on event pages:
- All rips related to events be in bold so that its easy way of seeing what is and what is not in a event
- Rips that have been noted as some importance to the day but not related to the event in question should be in italics so that it can be easy to see them and understand what they mean
- If there are too many or too little rips that are not apart of the event then we do not include them on the page
=-=
- 23:44: Ironwestie: (for this one just do one vote for all 3)
- 23:44: Pokemonfreak777: 1.
2.
3.
- 23:44: Coolbeans Cruz: 1.
2.
3.
- 23:44: Spottygamester:
- 23:44: Ironwestie: okay, then let's do a revote for all 3
- 23:45: Minindo:
- 23:45: Ironwestie: I figured everyone was all onboard, but I realize that is confusing
- 23:45: Ironwestie: Please revote for all three points:
Summary: New guideline for the rip list on event pages:
- All rips related to events be in bold so that its easy way of seeing what is and what is not in a event
- Rips that have been noted as some importance to the day but not related to the event in question should be in italics so that it can be easy to see them and understand what they mean
- If there are too many or too little rips that are not apart of the event then we do not include them on the page
- 23:45: Ironwestie: =-=
- 23:45: Coolbeans Cruz: 1.
2.
3.
- 23:45: Pokemonfreak777: 1.
2.
3.
- 23:46: Ironwestie: 1.
2.
3.
- 23:46: ZachHasArrived: 1.
2.
3.
- 23:46: Spottygamester: - All rips related to events be in bold so that its easy way of seeing what is and what is not in a event
Sorry to interrupt the voting here, but I assume that this doesn't apply to events that don't have any non-event related rips in them?
- 23:46: Ironwestie: Mm, I guess that was not clear from the initial proposal
- 23:47: Minindo: yeah, I interpreted this proposal as relating only to smaller events that don't take up the entirety of a day or multiple days
- 23:47: MSL925 the fox: yeah its also for like days
- 23:47: Spottygamester: Same, but I just wanted clarity.
- 23:47: Spottygamester: Alright.
- 23:47: MSL925 the fox: where there were non-event stuff
- 23:47: Spottygamester: I'll vote now.
- 23:47: Spottygamester: 1.
2.
3.
- 23:48: Minindo: 1.
2.
3.
- 23:49: Ironwestie: 1. 6-0-0
2. 6-0-0
3. 5-1-0
passed with the qualification that this does not apply for events that don't have any non-event related rips in them
- 23:49: Ironwestie: If we had more time I would ask for a revote, but I think most people made this assumption anyway
- 23:49: MSL925 the fox: yeah
- 23:49: Spottygamester: That will have to be mentioned when we get to writing these rules.
- 23:49: Ironwestie: I have time for 1 more proposal before I need to go. I will end the moot after this next proposal
- 23:50: Ironwestie: @Miles Prower you're up
A page for more trivia type events
- 23:50: MSL925 the fox: I feel a page for more lesser important but somewhat consistent events could be something we should have. The page will consist of like events and rips that all have been uploaded on days that have occurred over the years that have been more so yearly in a way. This is so that way there is a convenient place to find these sorts of daily year things.
Examples of what im refering to:
- 21st Night of September
- 9/11
- MOTHER 3 / 4/20
- It's Gonna Be May
- E3
- PSY Day
- Halloween
- Christmas
- Valentine's Day
- Undertale Anniversary
- Maki Nishikino's Birthday
- 23:51: Mick the Squirrel: would Rips uploaded on notable dates be relevant here?
- 23:51: ZachHasArrived: Like "list of minor events"?
- 23:51: Ironwestie: was just about to mention that, Mick
- 23:51: MSL925 the fox: yeah i say so, like its basically the old List of Channel events page except it doesnt have to that deep
- 23:52: MSL925 the fox: like you dont need to write up that much
- 23:52: Spottygamester: Would this page get a category or nay?
- 23:52: Pokemonfreak777: do we need a full event page for these? wouldn't a category or a disambiguation like page suffice?
- 23:52: Minindo: So I'm imagining would be a list, including all of those examples and more as bullet points, and in sub-bullet points in each of those are the linked actual events
- 23:52: MSL925 the fox: and also rips that are more singular to those days
- 23:52: Ironwestie: @Miles Prower do you have an example page we can take a look at?
- 23:53: Minindo: Ex.
- PSY Day
- 23:53: MSL925 the fox: yeah like that
- 23:53: Ironwestie: I have several questions about the format, but it is hard to visualize without an example
- 23:53: Minindo: Yeah, I feel like you should draft up an example page
- 23:53: MSL925 the fox: yeah sorry for not making one...
- 23:53: Minindo: I'm interested in this but i think it would help
- 23:53: Mick the Squirrel: User:Mick the Squirrel/Notable upload dates
- 23:53: Mick the Squirrel: ?
- 23:54: ZachHasArrived: Agree with the example page, but I still like this idea so far.
- 23:54: Spottygamester: I'd add the annual Goblin Dance rips to this as well since they're sill a yearly tradition even if they're not always on the same date.
- 23:54: Minindo: this is something different, still interesting but less streamlined than what msl proposed and a different purpose
- 23:54: MSL925 the fox: yeah this gives a idea of what i hope to do
- 23:54: Ironwestie: Mick's idea seems tangentially related, but it's different. miles's proposal is for yearly events, not all rips with notable upload dates
- 23:54: MSL925 the fox: yeah
- 23:55: MSL925 the fox: and also you dont need to do every year
- 23:55: Mick the Squirrel: i have the september rips repeated on the list, just not in one place
- 23:55: Pokemonfreak777: yeah im not sure about the formatting of micks page for this but i guess the idea is alright.
- 23:55: MSL925 the fox: just basically like January to December
- 23:55: MSL925 the fox: and in-between put the various annual stuff
- 23:55: Mick the Squirrel: oh yeah wasnt there actually a list of notable dates that was deleted years ago
- 23:55: Mick the Squirrel: i do not remember the exact title
- 23:55: Spottygamester: Not sure.
- 23:55: MSL925 the fox: so for example
=== April ===
- 23:56: Ironwestie: I believe you may be thinking of the original List of channel events page, Mick
- 23:56: Ironwestie: we had more detail on the old version
- 23:56: Spottygamester: The reason why we don't really do notable upload dates these days is because a lot of the time we don't know if it's a coincidence or not.
- 23:56: Minindo: @Miles Prower honestly i feel like you should make an example page for this on your userpage and then we can make edits to that / discuss the particulars more freely in wiki-general after the moot because I don't think it's ready to be voted on yet
- 23:56: MSL925 the fox: yeah i will
- 23:56: MSL925 the fox: ill make a page of what i am thinking of
- 23:57: MSL925 the fox: again sorry for not making a example page
- 23:57: Spottygamester: It's alright.
- 23:57: Spottygamester: You're idea's good though.
- 23:57: Ironwestie: cool, we'll table this for next moot
- 23:57: Ironwestie: Speaking of, the next moot will be November 5, the first Saturday of November
- 23:58: Ironwestie: We can reassess whether we want another 2-week cycle between moots then
- 23:58: Ironwestie: With that, the moot has concluded